LLD101

[DeadlyLLD]

Well, I think that maybe on a non hell rushed char that follows all LLD101 rules and uses no bugged or duped items, a hammerdin may just be about as good as you can get overall (although it still really does all come down to the person who is dueling)

However, my personal favorite hell rushed LLD char would still have to be a fireball sorc. I think that the only LLD char that would consistently kill a godly fireball sorc would be an amazing blizzy sorc (with unlimited teleportation on both chars, a fireball sorc can avoid just about everything but blizzard, and since an insanely well played blizzard sorc would be able to avoid most fireballs while hitting a few bliz every once in a while, the bliz sorc would probably win in the end)

I am pretty sure that Bela and Mei have dueled necro vs fb sorc, and I think that they are almost even. However, Bela is about as good as you can be with a necro IMO, and even though I think Mei may be about as good as there is with a fireball sorc in the LLD world, the maneuverability that a sorc can get from teleport leaves lots more room for improvement (I think it would technically be possible for a sorc to dodge all spears and spirits and still get in a few hits with fireball every once in a while)

Nonetheless, realistically speaking, I think that out of every LLD char ever made (with the creator being the person who actually duels with the char), Bela dueling with his necro is as good as it gets.

[meitou]

[DeadlyLLD]

Hmmm, well I know that you can get 5k+ dmg lightning with a good orb on a lvl 30 hell rushed lightning sorc, but since it takes so much longer to cast, I didn't think that a lightning sorc would do much better vs a necro. However, I did duel vs the best fireball sorc from last season of ladder in US East, Mitsuko (Royale on this site), with a lvl 30 lightning sorc that I made, and it certainly seems that lightning sorcs have amazing potential (the only LLD item I can think of that increases max lightning resist is the Holy Thunder runeword in a scepter, and I can't imagine anyone switching to that to duel a lightning sorc...except I guess if you had a 4 os war scepter with +3 hammer +3 conc, I guess that could be nice for a hammerdin vs lite sorc duel).

Oh and by the way Mei, I met you almost two years ago I think when I was fairly new to LLD. I had a pretty nice lvl 29 kicksin named ShadowOfTerror back then (account name was DeadlyLLD, but I gave the password to a guy named Val and a guy named ElSmokinMonkey, and I think that one of them changed it on me while I wasn't playing for a month), and I talked to you quite a bit to try to figure some stuff out about LLD in general. I dunno if you remember me, but you were always sorta a legend so of course I remembered you . However, almost as soon as ladder came out I switched over to that, and I haven't dueled much at all in non-ladder since then. If you are ever on ladder, my new and improved account is ShadowReborn.

[Moritz]

hmm lol i havent taken a look into this topic for 1 day and now there are 6 sites full of flaming hehe.

one thing i wanna refer to tho, which i ve just read on the 1st page:

[meitou]

I did some calculation about dual spirits damage reduction. Correct me if I am wrong.

Assuming both spirits are 8 magical absorb, then it equal to 32 magical reduction, and this is after resis.

Also assuming the pally is using perfect vipermagi and string of ear, that's 28 magical reduction, but before resis.

So, for vs elemental damage:

With 75% resis, the pally can negate
((32/0.25)+28 )/0.17=917 damage

with 85% resis (nokozan relic, or infernostride),
((32/0.15)+28 )/0.17=1419 damage

with 90% resis (Hawkmail, or hotspur)
((32/0.10)+28 )/0.17=2047 damage

with 95% resis (nokozan relic, and hotspur or infernostride)
((32/0.05)+28 )/0.17=3929 damage


And, for vs magical damage such as spirits and hammer
(32+28 )/0.17=352

So...dual spirits hammerdin is very good vs any type of lvl 30 caster which does elemental damage, better than I thought.

When pally is without +max resis items, cold and fire sorc should have fair chance vs it. However if pally use +max resis item, it can totally negate blizzard and fireball from a lvl30 sorc. On the otherhand, if the pally does that, sorc can just be defensive and pally can't touch it.

As for lightnig damage, thunderstorm won't work in this case, totally negated. Lightning sorc with 4k+ damage could have chance. Lightning trapper with 1600+ damage would have better chance. Note that 917 damage negation doesn't mean you can stand in traps with 1-1834 damage and won't be hurt, because the higher end damage dealt is more than what you can absorb at the lower end damage.

I believe necro can beat hammerdin fairly easy with proper bonewall skills, not to mention necro can prison, decrepify and use telestaff.


Now back to the original topic. I don't think there's any best overall build. A necro can be close to that, but it can't catch teleporting sorc, also I think a bowzon have great potential beating a necro.

Hammerdin is certainly not the best though, because a life replenish charger (40life/sec, 4k damage, about 1k life) can do all the hammerdin can do, and it can beat trappers easily, and it can beat hammerdin too. The only lvl30 char such charger can't beat would be a prison using necro, but again, if necro use prison, charger can just stay away and laugh.

[breakbeatz2]

A desynch pally will beat anything IMO. If it charges in 1 direction all across the Blood Moor it will be desynched a whole screen and kill you when your screen is clear.

I consider this BM, but people do it all the time in hld.

[Belarathon]

i don't think i would need to puton hotspur on him if your sorc didn't have 4,000 mana from special charms i think with an aevrage amount of mana about 1300 the necro could win vs that sorc all the time and about 75-25 for necro without hotspurs, but i dont really care about those charms anyways

and breakbeatz if a necro just places his bonewalls correctly it will undesync the pally before it even gets onto the necros screen and un-inviso all the invisible hammers too, and you can also basically direct wherever you want the pally to even travel within your screen just by making pathways and halls of bonewalls

[ubermoose]

[meitou]

[Hellfireclanx]

[SoaringSquirrel]

[meitou]

Ah, if both of you and jerkazoid says the spirits doesn't absorb elemental damage then I must be mistaken. I didn't look it up anywhere nor did I test it, I was just guessing.

Good news for casters, hehe.

Yeah with reasonable good gears, a lightning sorc can do 4K+ damage, lightning cast is slow though.

[breakbeatz2]

Isn't the 8 frame bp 105 fcr?

[krajee]

[Zeiris-lld]