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LLD101 Low Level Dueling in 1.12
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Knifer
Joined: 05 Dec 2004 Posts: 1333 BNet Acct/Realm: Hawaii/Oregon
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:18 am Post subject:
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Grim04 wrote: | And your point is? There's several popular games with popular glitches/unfair things that most good people won't use. I play the game the way it was meant to be played, doing otherwise simply means you aren't good enough to play it normally or you're just a shady person who'd rather win anyway they could. |
dont give me this im holier than thou crap. if you actually followed what you said, you would be playing with baron on barons bazaar because you know you dont only use the stuff you find.
_________________ *supercow2000 *supercow2005 Last.fm
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Grim04
Joined: 05 May 2004 Posts: 4197 BNet Acct/Realm: Grim04/UWNL
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:53 am Post subject:
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Knifer wrote: | Grim04 wrote: | And your point is? There's several popular games with popular glitches/unfair things that most good people won't use. I play the game the way it was meant to be played, doing otherwise simply means you aren't good enough to play it normally or you're just a shady person who'd rather win anyway they could. |
dont give me this im holier than thou crap. if you actually followed what you said, you would be playing with baron on barons bazaar because you know you dont only use the stuff you find.
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Again you bring in D2 for no point. I was playing how D2 was meant to be played, Bnet was made so people could level with others, duel with others, and trade with others. I never str glitched, used dupes, used desynch, or fc.
Also, there are a bunch of games which I refuse to do certain things because they are cheap/unfair/or a glitch in the game.
Halo 2 is a perfect example.
Things I refuse to do in Halo 2 no matter what:
Super Jumping (Glitch)
Dual Wielding (Unfair, makes people with no skill pretend they're good by holding down both triggers)
Double Hitting (Sorta Glitch)
Newb Combo (Completely destroys the balance of the game)
and yet I'm still good at Halo 2, these handicaps are what hold me back from playing with the pros online for the most part.
Thatguy, sliding along the ground is breaking the game's physics. L-Cancel was in the first smash, but it's unfair because those characters moves are supposed to take time, like Link pulling his sword out of the ground.
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Knifer
Joined: 05 Dec 2004 Posts: 1333 BNet Acct/Realm: Hawaii/Oregon
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:25 pm Post subject:
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Grim04 wrote: | Again you bring in D2 for no point. |
you were talking about games
d2 = game
Grim04 wrote: | Bnet was made so people could level with others, duel with others, and trade with others. I never str glitched, used dupes, used desynch, or fc. |
oh i see. you dont do it, but you can trade for dupes just because you didnt dupe them yourself.
like i said, if you followed what you said, you would be with baron who actually does do what he says.
_________________ *supercow2000 *supercow2005 Last.fm
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Grim04
Joined: 05 May 2004 Posts: 4197 BNet Acct/Realm: Grim04/UWNL
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject:
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Knifer wrote: | Grim04 wrote: | Again you bring in D2 for no point. |
you were talking about games
d2 = game
Grim04 wrote: | Bnet was made so people could level with others, duel with others, and trade with others. I never str glitched, used dupes, used desynch, or fc. |
oh i see. you dont do it, but you can trade for dupes just because you didnt dupe them yourself.
like i said, if you followed what you said, you would be with baron who actually does do what he says. |
Which dupes did I trade for? If I knew an Soj was duped, I wouldn't trade for it. I never traded for Hrs, especially when Sojs were worth next to nothing.
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ThatGuy
Joined: 03 Apr 2004 Posts: 1712 BNet Acct/Realm: MONTREAL YAA! Quit d2
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:43 pm Post subject:
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These "bugs", if you feel like calling them those, take an immense amount of practice to perfect and apply properly, in every given situation. They enhance your amount of options available to you in every conflict.
If the game was always played "the way it was meant to be played", as a 4 player smash and bash item fest frenzy, SSBM would not have become as popular as it is today.
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Grim04
Joined: 05 May 2004 Posts: 4197 BNet Acct/Realm: Grim04/UWNL
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:06 pm Post subject:
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ThatGuy wrote: | If the game was always played "the way it was meant to be played", as a 4 player smash and bash item fest frenzy, SSBM would not have become as popular as it is today. |
And you base this on? I'm willing to bet less than 5% of smash players actually utilize the bugs.
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Knifer
Joined: 05 Dec 2004 Posts: 1333 BNet Acct/Realm: Hawaii/Oregon
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject:
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Grim04 wrote: | Which dupes did I trade for? If I knew an Soj was duped, I wouldn't trade for it. I never traded for Hrs, especially when Sojs were worth next to nothing. |
ok lets see, runewords? sojs? duped rares? bugged items? glitched items? oh and lets count the uniques/rares/sets/etc botted since you know, that wasnt how blizzard intented the game to be.
basically if you on bnet and you join a public game chances are you are going to run into a "it wasnt intended to be played like that" aspect.
_________________ *supercow2000 *supercow2005 Last.fm
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SoaringSquirrel
Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 1549
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:45 pm Post subject:
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Grim is just trying to seem self-righteous and justified towards both D2 and SSBM, when in fact he neglects the fact that his avatar depicts the two Zod glitched items that his MLD used.
You can choose not to use these "exploits" if you want to, but acting so high and mighty for doing so only makes you highly and mightily idiotic. C'mon, do you really think the creators of these games knew everything? Do you have a little shrine established in your bed room worshipping the infinite wisdom of the development team? Does it have a bucket of jagged rocks next to it for stoning infidels who don't play in perfect accordance to the original design? Maybe you forget the possibility that some players play in a certain manner because they find it better than strict adherence to the "rules".
Grim04 wrote: | And you base this on? I'm willing to bet less than 5% of smash players actually utilize the bugs. |
Yet again, not the best argument, Grim. What do you mean by "smash players"? Just people who mess around every now and then? You'd probably be right, if that's who you're talking about, but I'm willing to bet that at the bare minimum, 75% of more serious Smash players use the aforementioned techniques. Seriously, just look at Major League Gaming if you want to see for yourself that, even if they make up a small percentage of the total smashers, the "important" ones, in the same sense that major league sports players are important, play without items. And guess what? All the techniques that you so valiantly abstain from are allowed. OH NOZ, THEY MUST BE DUMB
I'm sorry to say that as much as you'd like to be a big fish in a small pond, Grim, it is quite the contrary. Be advised to take your haughtiness elsewhere, because it obviously isn't fooling anyone here. Thanks, you've been helpful.
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Props to Mark Owens for the sig. My firstborn baby squirrel will be sacrificed in your honor.
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Grim04
Joined: 05 May 2004 Posts: 4197 BNet Acct/Realm: Grim04/UWNL
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:41 pm Post subject:
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Knifer, sorry but you're just grasping at straws. Since there is no way to tell if an item was mfed or botted, or if the high rune was duped... so the only thing you could possibly do is only use things you found yourself... but since this also violates how the game was designed (Bnet is a good example), then you have to pick the lesser of both evils.
Soaring, you assume that people who don't enter these tournaments must just be casual players. How many LLDs do you know that don't enter in Arena, but are still top-tiers?
You name them "important" ones, but who deems them important? Since Smash isn't online, they only play against roughly less than 5% of players. Since when did I say I used items? I don't use items in Smash, since they just increase randomness factor, and are really annoying...
Just because something is allowed, doesn't mean it isn't fair. Of course they're going to allow the glitches in the tournaments, because there isn't going to be someone watching the play and say you're disqualified for wavedashing or L-Canceling.
Since every character can achieve this (some better than others), there is no real way to moderate it. Since everyone's using D2 as a crutch, this is almost the entire issue with desynch.
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DiPLOMAT
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 1644
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:36 pm Post subject:
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does anyone play the original supersmash bros on n64... me n fox pwn
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SoaringSquirrel
Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 1549
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:42 am Post subject:
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Grim04 wrote: | sorry but you're just grasping at straws |
Perhaps if you reserved your straw men for the crows, no one else would make that mistake.
Grim04 wrote: | Soaring, you assume that people who don't enter these tournaments must just be casual players. How many LLDs do you know that don't enter in Arena, but are still top-tiers?
You name them "important" ones, but who deems them important? Since Smash isn't online, they only play against roughly less than 5% of players. Since when did I say I used items? I don't use items in Smash, since they just increase randomness factor, and are really annoying... |
I'm sorry, but D2 is quite different from Smash. That comparison is null. For example, there are annual prizes of $10,000 for first prize in tournaments across the nation, so you'd be stupid not to attend the tournaments if you think you're that good. In the arena, you get a fancy title under your name, and you don't even get those damned CK boots they promised us anymore. For this reason, major league sports serves as a much better analogue than LLD for Smash.
Quote: | Just because something is allowed, doesn't mean it isn't fair. Of course they're going to allow the glitches in the tournaments, because there isn't going to be someone watching the play and say you're disqualified for wavedashing or L-Canceling.
Since every character can achieve this (some better than others), there is no real way to moderate it. |
I agree. However, you are obviously not an expert on this subject, I will take the experts' terms, and not yours. You also pointed out "every character can achieve this". That would mean that every player has the oppurtunity to master this skill, and if they don't, then it's their own problem, and not the tournaments.
It should be noted too that there are people refereeing each (major) match during tournaments, so if wavedashing or l-canceling breach the rules, then they'd get the old DQ. Maybe if you actually tried something out before passing judgment, you'd know this.
Quote: | Since everyone's using D2 as a crutch, this is almost the entire issue with desynch. |
Yourself included, it would seem. Thanks for admitting that I have the better argument. You seem to have realized that not only do you need a crutch, but you require everyone to be on the same crutch because you choose to use it.
Sorry Grim, but your arguments are based on something you don't understand. You're like a delusionally cocky middle school tight end wondering why the pros don't use a small football like your league does. If it makes you feel better, I can kick your ass with your accustomed small balls without any of these techniques you hate before going back to the real players (incidentally, I don't really play Smash anymore either).
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Props to Mark Owens for the sig. My firstborn baby squirrel will be sacrificed in your honor.
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Wank
Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 3329 BNet Acct/Realm: Imp StormsRaider
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:56 am Post subject:
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I dont go to tournaments, but I play with a group of people and we all kick the hell out of eachother. I'm not sure about other people around the world, I have watched a few replays on smash boards and stuff and there is nothing that impressive.
When does brawl come out?
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Froggy-Leap Attacker, Vidala- Bow, Starly-Wind, Haunter-Bonenec, Dragonair-Fissure, Vileplume-Psn Jav, Clefairy- Wc
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Knifer
Joined: 05 Dec 2004 Posts: 1333 BNet Acct/Realm: Hawaii/Oregon
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:09 am Post subject:
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sometime in 07.
Grim04 wrote: | Since there is no way to tell if an item was mfed or botted, or if the high rune was duped... so the only thing you could possibly do is only use things you found yourself... |
exactly
Grim04 wrote: | but since this also violates how the game was designed (Bnet is a good example) |
how is using the stuff you found yourself violating how the game was designed...do you know what single player is?
Grim04 wrote: | then you have to pick the lesser of both evils. |
yea, cause you know, using and trading for dupes/botted items is the lesser evil.
_________________ *supercow2000 *supercow2005 Last.fm
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SoaringSquirrel
Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 1549
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:12 am Post subject:
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Imp wrote: | I dont go to tournaments, but I play with a group of people and we all kick the hell out of eachother. I'm not sure about other people around the world, I have watched a few replays on smash boards and stuff and there is nothing that impressive.
When does brawl come out? |
Really! You must be an amazing player of unsurpassed skill! Why don't you go to MLG tournaments to win the $10,000 prize since none of them are that impressive?
Knifer - he uses Zod glitched items. G-L-I-T-C-H-E-D. 'Nuff said.
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Props to Mark Owens for the sig. My firstborn baby squirrel will be sacrificed in your honor.
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Grim04
Joined: 05 May 2004 Posts: 4197 BNet Acct/Realm: Grim04/UWNL
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject:
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I did mention that every character has the oppurtunity to master the "skill" involved by using a glitch in the game, but I'd rather just play the game how it was meant to be.
I've been two several smash tournaments, and the referees I've seen look casually at the game and are watching several matches. If L-Canceling or wavedashing wasn't allowed, there wouldn't be a real way to moderate it.
Knifer, it violates the game on how it was made when you play with only things you find yourself on Bnet...
Yes the lesser of two evils is unfortunately buying possibly duped hrs/sojs or botted items.
Soaring you attack the fact I used Ebug items? Funny since every single ebug I used was legit.
Good job assuming Imp would get trashed at a tournament if he did go. Most people can't go drive to another country/state to play in a video game tournament. Most likely I wouldn't win, and it's not because of the lil glitches that you guys need to use to have that unfair advantage over the legit players, it's because I no longer play Smash consistently.
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