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LLD101 Low Level Dueling in 1.12
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55_thunder
Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 12
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 9:37 am Post subject:
Best lld??? |
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Which is the best lld you ever saw??? which type?
Or.. which is the most fun 2 play /w???
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krajee
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 6579
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 9:42 am Post subject:
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the best lld i ever saw was a necro that shot white things.
the most fun to play with is a sorceress that shoots arrows.
"best" depends on point of view.
"fun" depends on point of view.
If you want othe peoples' opinions, I'm pretty sure there is already a thread for that somewhere.
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Dao Jones
Joined: 28 Nov 2004 Posts: 2959 BNet Acct/Realm: *Dao_Jones, Bi-Realmsual.
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:17 am Post subject:
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Questions like this are why I don't high level duel. Everyone is always asking "WUT R TEH 1337IST UBAR DUELZORZ CLAS 2 MAEK??!?!!?1 PLZ GIME ITAMZ 2 SO I CAN B GOLDLY!1?!?!!1!11" Drives me friggin' crazy, because the answer is always the same:
The "best" dueling build is the one built by a good dueler who knows how to maximize the advantages of the build while minimizing the weaknesses.
The "most fun" dueling build is the one you enjoy playing.
Not that I'm implying that that is what you're saying; I just wanted to rant a moment. And you wanted opinions which we can all easily give:
The "best" dueling build I have seen for lld is also the bone necro, with the jeweled zealot a close second. My necro hasn't lost to a single clan-honor built level 30 yet. In his previous incarnation he lost to shdw_deathadder's windy druid, which is also a fantastic build when properly done (and shdw did it properly). I might beat him this time around, tho' - I've gotten better since we last dueled...
The most "fun" build is also more subjective. I favor my necro, which is obviously why I use him. I don't generally like melee duelers, because there's very little strategy in it. "Swing swing swing swing, repeat". And I don't much like sorcs because they tend to only have one attack form (fireball, lightning, or blizzard), without any diversity. Try a few different builds, and you'll start to recognize what you like about dueling, and once you do, you'll be better able to judge what would be most "fun" for you. I like the strategy of dueling with a necromancer; others like the process of building the perfect vlld, while others still enjoy the raw power of a jeweled zealot or fireball sorceress.
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breakbeatz2
Victim of the BAN BLUDGEON
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 4095
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:34 am Post subject:
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Dao - Answers like yours are the ones that drive me crazy.
When someone asks what dueler is best, I think it is implied that gear and skill level are equal when comparing the different builds. This leaves the only variable as the build itself. For HLD, the obvious answer is a beast/botd or beast/grief tele-ww barb. This build will beat every HLD build right now except a BVB barb. For LLD, I am quite inexperienced, but based on what I have read, I would have to agree that a necro is the best build.
As far as the most fun LLD character, it's obviously a subjective question, but I think the lesser used builds have the highest "fun factor." I would think a singer would be a lot of fun to play.
Lastly, your perception of what high end dueling is like is way off. In fact, many players at the very high end of HLD don't make tele-ww barbs or other all around godly dueling characters. Zealots and fury druids are extremely popular among top players due to the expensive/rare gear they require despite their inability to beat many other builds. They are built only to duel other zealots/druids in druidpk or palapk.
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GODZ!
Victim of the BAN BLUDGEON
Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 3623 BNet Acct/Realm: ECWK
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:39 pm Post subject:
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ok...ignoring everyone else.
The best build i ever saw would be a tie between mei's druid and bel's necro.
But the most fun char i've ever played is...thats hard. they are all fun.
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Makaveli
Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 217 BNet Acct/Realm: e_sc_nl *nosemonkey-b *nosemonkey-b1 *nosemonkey-b2
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:41 pm Post subject:
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what rare gear do palapk palas use? they all use the same thing usually =/
your right about hld... its not like that for a lot of people... you may see idiots like that on d2jsp but they arent the type of people i would hld with...
lotsa hld players try uncommon chars... the uncommon ones are hte ones i play most + have the most fun with actually... i have a 2handed fury druid for vs all (its so fun! 4 fpa, 11k dmg, 245 r/w, 6.6k life, 75+ all res depending on eq)... and a wof trapper... and a psn java zon...
im still new to lld, but my 2hand charger is really fun i also like playing my necro cuz it reminds me of my days playing 09 necros
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Dao Jones
Joined: 28 Nov 2004 Posts: 2959 BNet Acct/Realm: *Dao_Jones, Bi-Realmsual.
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:53 pm Post subject:
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breakbeatz2 wrote: | Dao - Answers like yours are the ones that drive me crazy.
When someone asks what dueler is best, I think it is implied that gear and skill level are equal when comparing the different builds. |
Spend five minutes scrolling through the b.net "skills discussion" forum, and try to use only one hand to count the number of "tell me the best pvp build and what items I need so I can be the best pvp dueler ever" posts you find there. For too many people it isn't about strategy or skill, it's about mfing for three weeks so they can spend 200 Ists building a cookie-cutter build that can paste everyone they meet with the least amount of skill necessary. Why do you think you see so many fire sorcs, hammerdins, ww barbs and bone necros at higher levels? I stand by what I said: a good dueler can take a subpar build and make it viable, and a subpar dueler can take an optimal build and get his ass handed to him with it. You'll note I did in fact answer his question - but I wanted to make the point that people who are looking for an easy answer that doesn't involve learning how to pvp and properly build a dueler are not going to be successful, regardless of their build. And you'll further note that I stated I did not assume he was asking for an easy way out - but I wanted it stated that my opinion was as I've said above.
Quote: | Lastly, your perception of what high end dueling is like is way off. In fact, many players at the very high end of HLD don't make tele-ww barbs or other all around godly dueling characters. Zealots and fury druids are extremely popular among top players due to the expensive/rare gear they require despite their inability to beat many other builds. They are built only to duel other zealots/druids in druidpk or palapk. |
I'll assume you're correct, as I don't high level duel at all. The only high level characters I encounter are the ones pub players bring in when they get pissed off that I can so easily kill their level 30-50 characters. My dueling associates like to take bets on whether or not it's going to be a hammerdin, fire/cold sorc, ww barb, or a charger; and 90% of the time we're not dissappointed. But I wouldn't call these builds dueling builds - I would call them pk builds, because they're designed to kill players. (Which, in my opinion, is very different from dueling.)
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Makaveli
Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 217 BNet Acct/Realm: e_sc_nl *nosemonkey-b *nosemonkey-b1 *nosemonkey-b2
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:09 pm Post subject:
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if you're basing your opinions of hld on the hld people you run into in public games, of course you are gonna think that way...
if you take private hld communities (equivalent of lld101 for lld)... it is much different... and you see viable non-cookiecutter builds and good mannered duels....
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giantsquid
Joined: 24 Mar 2005 Posts: 146 BNet Acct/Realm: USwest [L]
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:32 pm Post subject:
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krajee wrote: | the best lld i ever saw was a necro that shot white things.
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Would this not be a "boner?"
breakbeatz2 wrote: | For HLD, the obvious answer is a beast/botd or beast/grief tele-ww barb. This build will beat every HLD build right now except a BVB barb. |
You are either on non-ladder and making some assumptions, or you are just plain out wrong. A grief smiter of equal skill and quality of equipment to a ww barb will crush it while hardly getting hurt. A ww barb will have a very hard time against trappers, wind druids and bone necros. Other than the smiter, I cannot think of any melee build that is quite as powerful as the ww barb you described, however.
The most fun lld build that I have played personally is the (oh so generic) level 9 tiger strike assassin. Then again, it is the only lld build that I have ever tried. I think the reason that it is so much fun for me is because I enjoy the reactions of people in public games.
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ATOMICMAN
Official LLD101 Drunkard
Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2740 BNet Acct/Realm: *ATOMICMAN-LLD USEastNL Retired
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 2:53 pm Post subject:
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eth temp exile zealot would fair pretty well, 40+k def is damn hard for a ww barb to hit
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Belarathon
Joined: 24 Feb 2004 Posts: 4577 BNet Acct/Realm: east nl
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 7:02 pm Post subject:
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My old fire sorc was nothing special and she could tank some of the most respected BvC barbs on east while they were using hotspurs, I always considered barb as the easiest or 2nd easiest kill for my sorc. And don;t bother saying "oh i gaurentee you they weren't skilled ones" because they didn;t even need skill, I was tanking, all they had to do was click, and some of them had 100% perf gear. The best overall build for lld, If you hasve the proper gear, I would say is necro. If every lld101 rule is being followed, i think hammerdin and necro can beat everything. If lld101 rules aren;t being followed, then any type of sorc can basically beat a necro with the right amount of skill. But i still think overall, even without lld101 rules, a lvl 30 nec will beat the most builds and lose to the least builds sorceress and good fury druid are also good though, those would be the top 3
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Makaveli
Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 217 BNet Acct/Realm: e_sc_nl *nosemonkey-b *nosemonkey-b1 *nosemonkey-b2
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject:
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did this sorc use 15/70s ~
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Dao Jones
Joined: 28 Nov 2004 Posts: 2959 BNet Acct/Realm: *Dao_Jones, Bi-Realmsual.
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 9:26 pm Post subject:
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Belarathon wrote: | If every lld101 rule is being followed, i think hammerdin and necro can beat everything. |
I thought my necro was invincible until I ran afoul of lpb's hammer/charger. Took me three tries to figure out how to beat it (and that may have been luck, at that.)
Quote: | If lld101 rules aren;t being followed, then any type of sorc can basically beat a necro with the right amount of skill. |
Not any type. A fire sorc still has trouble (stick and move, stick and move), but a teleporting cold sorc who knows what he's doing can beat me. Never fought a lightning sorc lld.
Quote: | But i still think overall, even without lld101 rules, a lvl 30 nec will beat the most builds and lose to the least builds sorceress and good fury druid are also good though, those would be the top 3 |
Fuh's fury druid is a pretty tough dueler. I think lld sorcs who don't teleport tend to have a rough time versus chargers, unless they keep max block gear on switch. You know what works surprisingly well? An eshield sorc with an Insight and good mana replenish. Surprisingly effective.
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Zolas
Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 4315 BNet Acct/Realm: WoW Perenold
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 4:30 am Post subject:
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giantsquid wrote: | krajee wrote: | the best lld i ever saw was a necro that shot white things.
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Would this not be a "boner?"
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lol didnt anyone else find this funny?
i agree that necros give all my current duelers the hardest time, but i had a charger at one time (Cutpurse) that could handle any necro that didnt mass use prison. (of course i didnt duel bel)
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Dao Jones
Joined: 28 Nov 2004 Posts: 2959 BNet Acct/Realm: *Dao_Jones, Bi-Realmsual.
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 7:51 am Post subject:
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zolas wrote: |
i agree that necros give all my current duelers the hardest time, but i had a charger at one time (Cutpurse) that could handle any necro that didnt mass use prison. (of course i didnt duel bel) |
Really? I almost never lose to chargers. Generally, they can never hit more than once (max block), and they rarely survive long enough to hit twice.
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