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LLD101 Low Level Dueling in 1.12
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Dao Jones
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Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:07 pm Post subject:
Question about smiter dueling tactics |
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Been looking around the site, and trying to figure out how dueling with (not against) a Smiter works. It would seem to me that they don't do much damage, and like it seems implied the real test is to outlast your opponent as you nickle-and-dime them to death (with doses of CB and OW thrown in for good measure). However, in some places I see people posting pretty healthy amounts of Smite damage - amounts that seem, if not equal, fairly approximate to other modes of attack. So which is the case? Is the Smiter a slow but steady killer? Or can he step up and dish it out with the best (non-jeweled Zealot) build?
(The underlying motivation to this question is that I'm giving thought to a level 30-35 dueler, since 90% of the pub duels I come across are against level 25-45 characters. However, I have no appreciable life charms to speak of, and most of my damage charms and jewels are currently oriented toward my level 18 duelers. So I'm pondering non-jewel and charm intensive builds I can make at that level, which seem currently to be Smiters and Kickers; since neither need damage charms or jewels as far as I can see, I can load their sockets up with rubies to fill out my lack of life charms. However, a lack of a huge life pool on a slow killer would probably not be very viable, hence my "slow smite kill" question.)
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Chewie
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Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:13 pm Post subject:
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A smiter would be your best bet IMO. For a lvl 29 kicker, you're gonna need tons of strength to wear war boots, which means very little life. I tried a 29 kicker and scrapped it when I remembered I had no charms. Her life was around 300-400 if I remmeber. A smiter on the other hand can probably get away with about...50ish strength I'm guessing. Also, +skills will help up the damage on your smite more than your kicker would get. The only problem, is you'll need to shop/trade for some pretty good items, unless you go above the lld101 level restriction for smiters which is 28.
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Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:35 pm Post subject:
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well he said hes gonna go 30-35 so im guesing he isnt follow 101 rules.. just a guess though
a 35 smiter would be your best bet....all u need to do is shop a monks spike shield and make a Black flail (runeword)....and i beleive most use Rattlecage for cb...and Gulliums helm....for rings id say sojs and a +2 to combat skillz ammy....gloves id say b-fist and belt id say deaths....and for boots use Goblin Toes......i dont beleive ne of this is hard to get and its a VERY deadly build....as for a 35 kicker id say do the same general thing except for a shield use Grim rhyme shield and for boots/gloves/belt use Ik
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Dao Jones
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Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:42 pm Post subject:
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chewie112 wrote: | The only problem, is you'll need to shop/trade for some pretty good items, unless you go above the lld101 level restriction for smiters which is 28. |
[Sorry - off-topic tangent here. I'll bracket at the end for interested parties to scroll past without treading through my Hemingway-esque birdwalk.]
This character isn't going to be LLD101 okay. I mean, while I like the site, and you all are very good sources of information, there really doesn't seem to be any groundswell of activity on Ladder USWest from people on this site. And, truthfully, I don't think the lld101 way is for me. I'm a really casual player of this game, and you people (who play with more focus than I could ever muster) are all pretty intense duelers. You're also all pretty good duelers (at least those I've met and lost to), and while I know much of that is skill, I also assume that there's something to be said about huge amounts of the "right" kind of charms and the "right" kind of jewels. And I don't have all the "best" stuff, nor do I intend to spend the time to get more than a small percentage of it. I'm the guy that shows up to the soccer game in a twenty-dollar pair of cleats, old clothes, and a case of beer under his arm. You guys are the ones who buy (or meticulously shops for deals on) the best gear, guards, clothes and accessories to enhance your play. (I'm speaking metaphorically, of course.) And while much can be said about the clothes making the man, ultimately I'm a casual dueling enthusiast at best, and I really don't have the will to track down, cube, trade or shop the gear necessary to be a pro. I'm an amateur to the core, and if I can make a dueler that can win 50% or more of his matches in the public dueling arena, then I'm a happy guy.
I was the same way about Magic: the Gathering (I played it when I was 19 - a decade ago. Christ that game is old.) All my friends were frenetic about getting all the awesome, hard-to-find cards, whereas I was happy playing in sealed deck tournaments and giving away my cards to the little kids afterwards.
Anyway, point being that I have my level 18 duelers, who are both lld101 "correct". What I need now is a good dueler than can do well in the low-level public dueling arena without forcing me to shop (trade/find) useable items yet again. And since I have all this great crushing blow gear laying around (Goblins, Rattle, Guillaumes, enough runes to make every under-40 runeword twice over), I naturally thought of the two builds that really benefit from cb.
However, new though I may be, even *I'm* not bad mannered enough to ask for build advice on a non-sanctioned lld101 character. I'll just ask oblique skill questions and divine my guidance from your pearls of wisdom.
[End tangent here.]
But to address your input: I have strength charms aplenty. I also have a reasonable amount of elemental/poison damage charms, max damage charms, AR charms and resist charms. What I *don't* have are life charms. So i'm pretty sure I could swing the strength requirements for either character if need be. I guess I should have asked this question a better way. I'll leave this up (because I still want more discussion on this subject), but ask a better question in another thread. Thanks for your input chewie.
[edit: new info] Welp, that's two for the smiter. I don't have SoJs (Ist+Um on ladder, and there's no way in hell I'm dropping that on a friggin' ring.] but I have a raft of smooth rare rings that will give me mods I can use, like added stats and resists.
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VoicesLLD
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Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:28 am Post subject:
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it is all in the shield. if you can get yourself a decent rare +2 combat 30/20 barbed shield, youll have a good smiter. if you want to make him even better, get a +3 holy shield scepter.
other then that, it is almost the same gear as a zealot. and a well built smiter will beat a well built zealot any day, as smiter is the antimelee character. if you want to know a build for a level 30-35, look up a build for a level 28, and just add your extra skills to holy shield.
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Dao Jones
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Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:21 am Post subject:
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VoicesLLD wrote: | other then that, it is almost the same gear as a zealot. and a well built smiter will beat a well built zealot any day, as smiter is the antimelee character. if you want to know a build for a level 30-35, look up a build for a level 28, and just add your extra skills to holy shield. |
Well then, cool, because most of the duelers I meet in USWest pub duels are melee (and level 90 sorcs from bad duelers that got all pissy they got beat), and if a smiter works well inexpensively against them that might be a good way to go. And I've certainly checked out every kicker and smiter build I could find on here...
'course, I found a white Greater Claw yesterday: level 33 req, +1 Shadow Master, +3 Venom, +2 Dragon Flight. Seemed too useful to toss, and figured if I ever made a kicker high enough level to use Guillaumes, I could put that claw to some type of use.
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Inexorable
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Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:51 am Post subject:
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Dao, if you're going for big cb/ow nastiness with a bit of smite damage thrown in for fun, I'd suggest the following few items:
Guillaume's Face.
Goblin Toe
Black runeword Flail
That's for 100% crushing blow.
Now, if you're going to go to 35, pack an upgraded Swordback Hold. Barbed shields are the highest smite damage shields available at that level still, if I remember correctly.. and it's got open wounds. Rawk. 50%, I think.
Lay on all the +2 combat skills stuff ya can find for pre-buffing purposes (Or, you're ladder if I recall, so Spirit's not out of the question), and smift-smite your poor bastard melee opponents into the ground.
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Knarl wrote: | Inexorable beat LittleKnarl, 4-3. Grumble grumble. My poor smiter. |
Knarl wrote: | 4-3 for inexorable again in melee. 10 life...pssh. |
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Dao Jones
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Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:36 am Post subject:
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Cancerofdabowel wrote: | Now, if you're going to go to 35, pack an upgraded Swordback Hold. |
Is that better than the exceptional unique barbed shield? I was curious, because both looked pretty good. On the one hand, you have:
Swordback Hold
+30-60% Enhance Defense (varies)
+10 Defense
20% Increased Chance of Blocking
50% Chance of Open Wounds*
Attacker Takes Damage of 10
versus Lanceguard
+70-120% Enhanced Defense (varies)
15% Damage Taken Goes To Mana
30% Faster Hit Recovery
20% Deadly Strike
+50 To Life
Attacker Takes Damage of 47
Swordback has OW and ICB, while Lanceguard has DtM, FHR and DS, in addition to an extra chunk of life.
Well, since we're talking about the build anyway... and since most people seem to be suggesting the Smiter, I might as well lay out my thoughts on the build, and through it open to input. So, it would look like this:
Helm: Guillaumes
Armor:
A) Spirit Shroud (upped? For cbf and +1 skill)
B) Rattlecage (for 25% cb)
C) Upped Twitchthroe (for raft of Twitch bonuses)
Belt: String of Ears
Gloves: Upped Bloodfists? Death's? Crafted bloods? IK? Something with IAS, because I don't have much otherwise.
Shield:
A) Upped Swordback Hold
B) Lanceguard
C) Superior Barbed shield w/Rhyme
D) " " with deflecting, Monk's and two sockets (need to shop)
Boots: Upped (or not) Golbin Toe
Weapon:
A) Black (for cb, plus a few other tasty mods)
B) Malice (for 100% OW - I could get cb for other gear)
C) Strength (fat +20 to Str, 25% cb, plus this and Malice could go in a scepter, which means more +skills)
Rings & Ammy: Probably something rare or crafted, which I have plenty of. Don't need AR for Smite, so I wouldn't need Angelics.
Skills would be (as Voices said) pretty much an extension of a level 28 build. 38 total for normal difficulty only. (No patience to NM/Hell rush)
Max Holy shield for level (12 at level 35)
Max Smite
03 in prereqs (Holy Bolt, Charge and Blessed Hammer)
03 for Might, Blessed Aim and Concentration
Or would the Defiant build work better? Holy Shield, 1 in Smite, and pump Defiance? At higher levels I'm not sure which is the better tactic. At any rate, it's really easy to get 100% CB (actually capped at 95%, but close enough), and a goodly amount of OW if needed. On the other hand, I'm going to need a lot of Strength, and without life charms (which I don't have), my health is really going to suck - maybe 400 or so. So maybe Defiance is needed to survive more than a few seconds against a Zealot, who at that level could probably paste me in one hit. (I know that my jabber with 503 life doesn't last long against them.)
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Mr.Snuggles
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Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:05 pm Post subject:
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im suprised bela hasnt said sumthing...he used to use MethMike's acc all the time (sry if this is some 1 on forums whos name i have no idea of...=\)had a VERY deadly smiter on it....but it was a cheap yet very deadly build....i beleive the hardest thing to find was the Monks barbed shield.....
CancerOfDaBowel wrote: | That's for 100% crushing blow. |
from what iv been told cb/ds doesnt stack...so technicly thats not 1 big chance to have his cb hit thats 3 different chances for his cb to hit....cause i had a 34 ww barb using about 120% cb and his cb didnt hit every time (which made him suck so much)
For aura since your going 35 y not put 5 pts into fanat?....speed + dmg as apposed to just dmg.....this would mean les ias your gonna need.....as for smite id just max holy shield and put 1 into smite....and ne xtra pts after uv done all that can go into smite...if your gonna go with a cheaper way then monks barbed then id say the up'd swordback is the way to go....since most of the things suggested here are cb based y not throw in a little ow's to watch them bleed.....and since your a smiter i dont beleive u need to much fhr sine 3/4ths of the time they arent even gonna hit u.....id say use the rattlecage for the cb since the more chances u have to hit cb the better and if u really wanted to u could fit it with a 15ias jewel if your still afraid of speed....id also say go black cause if im not mistaken it will prolly be the fastest of the weapons u will be able to chose from for all 3 runewords and its also got way better mods IMO....for rings id say 2x sojs (unless u dont have ne xtra's then just get sum + to stat rings like +5 to str and such or ne thing close to that).....and for a ammy id say a +2 to pally combat skills.....and im guessing if u really want on switch u coul dhave a +3 to hs scepter and that 1 uniq shield that adds +1 to pally skillz for a little pre-buff......but if u dont want that id say put swordback/malice on switch hit them once for the ow's and then switch back to black/lanceguard (id say only use lanceguard if your going to do the ow's switch idea if not then dont worry sbout lanceguard)....
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Jerkazoid
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Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:42 pm Post subject:
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Deadly strike (DS) does nothing for smite
items that give Chance to crush per strike, stack. (30+40%+10% =80%)
100% chance to crush means every strike will crush, there is no cap.
lvl 35?? i think id go like this.
upped swordgaurd* saves a ton of dex and 50% OW!
spirit shroud for +1 ,cbf , etc
orphans hat for crushing
string of ears for dr% and mdr
sojs
+2 combat ammy
"black" flail
bloodfists
goblins (crush!) or cow kings, or sanders
[try real hard to get +2 combat (or spirit) or +3hs scepter item along with +2combat shield on switch to get HS up 4 or 5 more ]
ull need ias jewels in your sockets (*one in the upped swordbaurd will turn the shield 36).. im not gonna check the breaks but go for fanata as main aura for the speed it will let u hit.. (be mind full of your breaks) and use the pre req of concentration incase u want uniteruptible vs certain players,, but stay with speed., speed is GOOD for decent dmg smiters.
your dmg should be alright.. and even if a player tries to negate it u have butt loads of OW and crushing..just make sure your smite reaches about 600 max... if your smite avg dmg is under 450, get more!.,, either with more HS prebuff +smite skill points
dont bother with def,, i doubt it will work on decent players unless u built with lots of def gear and skills and totaly crapped your dmg for it. (bad idea!) let the dmg along with its speed do its thang,, thats what lvl 25+ smiters are good at.
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Dao Jones
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Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:02 am Post subject:
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Thanks Jerkazoid and others. Sounds like a pretty easy build to put together. (I don't have SoJs; too bad my BK ring isn't useful until level 50+...) I have most of the gear listed, and shopping a Holy Shield scepter is only a matter of a little patience (since it's only a pre-buff anyway, it doesn't need any other useful mods, I'd guess). So skills then, if I'm hearing right, would look like this (given 38 skills points @ level 35):
06 Pre-reqs (Might, BA, Conc, HB, BH, Charge)
06 Fanaticism
12 Holy Shield
14 Smite
Basic plan is to Charge to close the distance, then smite like a demon until one of us is dead. Gear will look as follows:
Helm: Guillaumes (probably Hel'd to reduce Str reqs)
Armor: Spirit Shroud
Weapon: "Black" in something light and fast
Shield: Upped Swordguard
Weap2: Prebuff HS scepter
Shield2: Something with +skills
Gloves: Upped Bloodfists
Belt: String of Ears
Boots: Goblin Toe (maybe upped)
Ammy: Something with +skills
Rings: useful rares, or maybe a Manald Heal if mana is an issue.
With that build I'd have:
100% Crushing Blow
60% Faster Hit Recovery
50% Open Wounds
15% Deadly Strike
25% IAS (with approx 28% from Fanat, for 53% total)
The second-highest bp for Smite (7 frame attack) with a Flail is 60%, which can easily be achieved with an IAS jewel somewhere. Which leaves the one open socket (shield or armor) for... something. I won't need FBR with Holy Shield, and my FHR is about as high as I'd need it. The heaviest item I'll have is the Guillaumes - even with the -15% I'll need about 97 Strength to use it. Unfortunately, the only source of +Strength I have (other than whatever I get on jewelry or charms) is the helm itself, so it looks like I'll be pumping points into Strength. Stats will look like this:
Strength: 97 (72 spent)
Dexterity: 72 (52 spent)
Vitality: 76 (51 points left over)
This will leave me with a horrible life total: 346 Life (including items). This won't last me more than a hit or two, so that's a problem. Now, if I ditch Guillaumes for, say, a Peasant Crown, I'll lose the Guillaume's mods , but gain 60 Life (from helm), and save maybe 30 Strength points to put into Vitality (another 90 Life, to boot). Of course, Guillaume's was one of the reasons to take this build up to level 35 (along with Black), so if I lose Guillaumes, it kinda defeat the purpose of taking myself to level 35 in the first place...
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xZephyrX
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Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:37 am Post subject:
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Put more in holy shield and less in smite..... you'll have better damage that route.
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Jerkazoid
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Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:52 am Post subject:
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ias from fanata is EIAS.. (effecitive ias)
regular ias gets thrown into a dimishing return formula
so adding the too is not accurate plz us this link:
http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english
figure what your fanata will be after any +skills like soj or +1ammy.. looks like your gonna need to try to hit 50-55% gear ias to hit 6 frames. (i would say try for 6 frames too)
get +15 life sc's for your life so its closer to 800.
damn i never noticed how heavy ghlimes face is... u could save the 17 stats (using -15%jewel) or go for the 15ias jewel to allow u to hit 6 frames... shroud + face jeweled thats 30%ias there... +25% from gear and your set to hit 6 frames with slvl 6 fanata
12 is the most u can put into HS at lvl 35... so u did fine. just remebr to figure how much +ull get to it and add your dex AFTER that blocking increase to hit 75%.. so your not wasteing dex.
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Belarathon
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Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:27 pm Post subject:
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I will give you a 100% cb/6 frame smiter lvl 35 build you can try out. I don't use it anymore, so you can have the items. It did pretty well for me, I didn't seem to lose to very much at all. the build is monk's barbed shield of deflecting with 2 socket (+1 pala deflecting mods) 1 pala blah blah other mod ammy, guillaumes helm with 18ed/-15%req, rattlecage armor with 18ed/15ias , black flail, deaths glove belt, 2 sojs, and 40x 15 life sc, waterwalk boots.
i will give you all of the items i have left. the shield, the amulet, the armor, the helm. the rest i have given away i'm afraid. It's a really strong build, it will beat these lvl 45 chars you face fo sure. and i think i still have an up'd perfect max dmg/-15 req bonesnap you can put on for vs casters, with lvl 1 charge it does decent dmg, and you can maintain your 100% crushing blow with it. what;s your account? I'll message you and get you the gear soon enough if you want to try it, it's strong.
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VoicesLLD
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Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:03 pm Post subject:
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dao is ladder west.
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