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Chronotrigger
Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 1112 BNet Acct/Realm: ladder east/Florida
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject:
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thank u that clears up a lot i wonder why bnet has not fixed this... it wuold probly take to much erort and reprograming id think to bad i wish thy fix the str bug 2
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Jerkazoid
Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 2902 BNet Acct/Realm: wscl
4.86 Silvarrr
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject:
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Zeiris-lld wrote: | Yeah, that makes perfect sense! Each sprite has a single (x, y) coordinate that defines its position. However, each sprite also has width and height. Suppose the (x, y) coordinate of a sprite isn't in the very center? In D2's isometric map system having the players coordinates at the feet instead of the waist makes sense. |
interesting indeed but this just cant be true.
if it was we would noticably be able to position two equal range melees at north and south positions... and watch as only the north character can acheive strikes. but test this, and no dice. the problems is much more subtle and hard to pin point
i suggest rounding is to blame.. we have an X,Y system yet we have a flat 16 directions to move in... (insert Lewis black sPaSyM)
but i have another thing to throw in.
i assume we have a grid system, and a player occupies a bounding box; 16X16 square at the feet only (not cube bc we wouldnt care about hieght for the purposes of D2.. the game is flat and there is no such thing as (Z) hieght, this also keeps the math smaller)
now lets imagine two 16X16 players are moving towards eachother. at some point the players could close into range of eahother and only be 1 unit away from attacking.
*bc we might only have 1 unit sepereating the two players on the next frame we have an inbalance issue....
1 player will have to move the single unit while the other player was chosen to already start its attack.
but wich player? how is it prioritized?? and think of all the issues;
range
run/walk speed
attack speed
ping... (etc...(
the math is a good simulation,,, but its never perfect. so we have weirdo stuff happening
i think although this doesnt answer 100% of the questions about why it seems like 1 melee beats another.. we can be sure a whole mess of variables are behind it
likely there probably is no way to fully and noticably control this issue
_________________ Magic missile doesn't kill people, wizards who cast magic missile kill people.
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SuperDirt
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 3
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject:
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I've definitely noticed that when attacking from a straight vertical position (when on top) your chance of striking a target drops significantly. I thought most duelers already knew this since a lot try to position themselves directly below my char.
I don't use it nor do I let another use it on me. I attack mostly from the side (all this considering melee...).
_________________ President Scrube! ... Salute!
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Zeiris-lld
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 385 BNet Acct/Realm: siriez, siriez2, zeiris-lld, zeiris, zeiris1
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:52 pm Post subject:
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A bit of testing with multiclient has proven my theory to be totally out of whack
Testing with an assassin using range 2 claws and a barbarian using range 3 throwing spears I've found that ... things are weird. Attacking from above and below the range difference doesn't show. From the sides, it did... Sometimes results were different from other times. Etc, etc.
Weird stuff. Things are definitely complicated.
_________________ Retired: Haruspex (30/fissure) Kukamunga (30/hammerdin) Bungabunga (30/charge) NoPotsJustHax (30/regen/charge) AllMyShootings (30/enchant/bowmerc) CapnCapslock (27/mindblast/hammer) Salamander (19/fireball HC disposa-PK) ForgottenName (18/range 5 basher)
Equipped: leaper (14/doublethrow) Flayer (33/firetrapper)
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Zeiris-lld
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 385 BNet Acct/Realm: siriez, siriez2, zeiris-lld, zeiris, zeiris1
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject:
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Many, many months later, the mystery is solved.
The D2 network protocol uses an integer coordinate system of fairly low accuracy On the client, you see yourself moving around very accurately - on the server, that's simply not the case since the client takes its' accurate coordinates, and rounds them down so they can be sent to the server.
In addition to a rough coordinate system used in communication, the client and server are prone to very small desynchs. Not crazy charge-level stuff, but small unnoticeable things - corpses and players being in slightly different positions on different clients, etc.
These two things combined make that glitch unsurprising.
_________________ Retired: Haruspex (30/fissure) Kukamunga (30/hammerdin) Bungabunga (30/charge) NoPotsJustHax (30/regen/charge) AllMyShootings (30/enchant/bowmerc) CapnCapslock (27/mindblast/hammer) Salamander (19/fireball HC disposa-PK) ForgottenName (18/range 5 basher)
Equipped: leaper (14/doublethrow) Flayer (33/firetrapper)
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Waramp
Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 4788
0.59 Silvarrr
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:27 am Post subject:
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Elusive wrote: | agreed there is a difference in angles, sub and i discovered this in our zealot duels as well. |
a friend and i did this with zealot duels as well. we both had fairly similar zealots (i believe his stats were slightly better than mine), but the character who was directly on top (or was it directly below? it was a while ago) of the other won over 75% of our duels.
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Elusive
Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Posts: 2765 BNet Acct/Realm: *elusive-
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:10 am Post subject:
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Waramp wrote: | Elusive wrote: | agreed there is a difference in angles, sub and i discovered this in our zealot duels as well. |
a friend and i did this with zealot duels as well. we both had fairly similar zealots (i believe his stats were slightly better than mine), but the character who was directly on top (or was it directly below? it was a while ago) of the other won over 75% of our duels. |
this is true; you dont appear the same angle on one screen if you have two side by side.
as for the top or bottom i did this with sub a while back it was inconclusive.
best bet is to find an angle you slam them down at and stick to it
position on map/were exit to town is im sure play a factor as well.
a lot more going on here than click and hold ^_______^
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