LLD101

joegoody · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:23 am Post subject: damage or life?

edit with new calculations

After reading everyone's posts it doesn't seem like there is one clear cut winner. I did my calculations based on the equipment that would give the highest possible max damage, but after pondering my equipment I'm not sure that is the best way to go anyway. Here are some new calculations for what will probably be my end game equipment (for now anyway):

370-650 Dmg (510 avg)
780 Life

-or-

280-500 Dmg (390 avg)
1020 life

These will stay constant:
700 def
9000 ar
35% damage reduction

In this case the % increase is exactly equal for either life boost or dmg boost. Something I didn't think of before: is chance to knockback affected at all by dmg? That might swing it in favor of dmg over life.

breakbeatz2 · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:27 am Post subject:

I think you should choose whichever one is a greater % increase.

In this case that is life.

GT-Pwn · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:29 am Post subject:

the first question is, what is your def.

heprea · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:30 am Post subject:

GT-Pwn · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:34 am Post subject:

well im trying to put together in my head, if he is useing a full on run at you and kick, head on style kicker. or if he is useing dragon flight also. so i would know what to recomend for him.

this whole life vs dmg idea, isnt realy a question on which is better, its a question on what technique do you use, and which would sute YOUR build better.

if your a hit and run, dragon flight type asn. dmg
if your a tele in \ dragon flight in, and just try to tank the rest of the fight type. life

with more information, i would be able to answear him with a better responce.

Edit- sry for my horible spelling , im fiting these post in while im at work...

joegoody · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:36 am Post subject:

IIRC def is somewhere in the 700-800 range.

Using the % increase method doesn't help much since life % increase is negligibly higher, and actually lower depending on who I'm dueling (changes slightly melee v. caster)

And I'm generally more of a tank kind of guy. Unless they are running, I'm right in there.

krajee · Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 6579 9.68 Silvarrr

Keep in mind that you can do more damage by surviving longer.

breakbeatz2 · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:50 am Post subject:

Yes, that's why I think the direct % increase is what you should pick.

If you live 30% longer, you do 30% more damage.

GT-Pwn · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:57 am Post subject:

This is if his kicker, at lvl 30 is not a glass cannon. But i doubt anyone would attempt that. The way i see it.

Kicker who just tanks. Go life

Kicker who dragon flights and runs. Go dmg

and remember. always keep that 3 p ruby -15 ancient, and a 3 p ruby death mask, and 2x ma claws in your stash. for those times where you run into hammerpallys\sorcs\bonenecros and any other non cookie cutter casters i forgot.

Vietthehand · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:25 am Post subject:

i dont think 3 pruby/-15req is optimal socketing for an armor ^^

breakbeatz2 · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:27 am Post subject:

It makes no difference.

If you live 30% longer, you do 30% more damage.

30% increase in life = 30% increase in damage.

The only situations where this is not true are extremes, where increasing your life a certain amount doesn't allow you to take an extra hit.

GT-Pwn · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:45 am Post subject:

having extra life in an armor off hand is optimal, and realy cheep. as well as in a helm, just for casters. and your 30% life = 30% longer to do dmg theory would work well in lld 18 or vlld. but at lvl 30. conc barb \ charge pallys, and so forth deal quite a large amount of damage in a short time. posibly 3-4 hits conc or 1-2 charges to knock out the 1000 life this kicker would have. and also, with the 30% more life = 30% longer to deal dmg idea. if you dont have the ar to make the hits happen. ( which we were not told his ar ) the extra life would just be a waist. but then again if the ar dose not cut it, the extra dmg would not eather.

you have to remeber that at lvl 30 1000 life is extreamly low. a mid ranged lvl 18 zealer would have just about as much life as the lvl 30 kicker would. im not sure on the life of most lvl 30 barbs or druids. because i never had made one, but if my lvl 18 conc barb has 3900 def and 740 life 1\2 way done, i figure a lvl 30 to have well over 2x that.

the lvl 30 kicker just seems impractical to me. but i was trying to help, joegoody with the moderate knowledge i have. I think that if you want to go with it joe, i would be glad to see how it turns out. who knows it might prove me completly wrong.

Vietthehand · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:51 am Post subject:

please explain what the -15req is for... warboots is 125 str (115 if eth) 85 str on armor is not helping anything at all...at least put another ruby...

breakbeatz2 · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:55 am Post subject:

I don't think you understand the concept.

AR has nothing to do with it. If you have low AR, and rarely hit, you still do 30% more damage in a duel that lasts 30% longer.

Another way to explain this to you: You said that extra life is a waste if you don't have the AR to make hits happen. Extra damage is also a waste in this case.

Lastly, in certain matchups extra life will not even let you take 1 more hit. However, this is not a legitimate argument against extra life. There are also certain situations where 1 extra life lets you take 2 hits instead of 1, therefore doubling your effectiveness.

Against the FIELD - a 30% increase in life = a 30% increase in efectiveness.

Against the FIELD - a 30% increase in damage = a 30% increase in effectiveness.

In this specific case, the increase in life is a higher % than the increase in damage. He should go with the life.

meitou · Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 1661 4.11 Silvarrr

kicker is one complicated build, just can't have all the good things at once. >_<

Make all the gears and choose them for different duels.