
LLD101 Low Level Dueling in 1.12

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Winty
Joined: 27 Sep 2008 Posts: 3
0.00 Silvarrr

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:06 pm Post subject:
Min Dmg Chars Posible at 30?? 

ok so ive been trying to come up with a build that can utalise min dmg jools.
if im honest i havent really come up with anything or known any1 try min dmg builds..
was wondering if any1 has tried some stuff and could give me some ideas and provide some feedback.
the only build ive ever heard of is min dmg charger.
cheers

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D jr
Joined: 07 Dec 2009 Posts: 24 BNet Acct/Realm: Europe ladder
0.00 Silvarrr

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:57 pm Post subject:


At lvl 9 it's quite straitforward but for lvl 30 it would be hard i guess given the gap between min and max damage on weapons at that lvl. Even if you manage to bridge the gap i don't think you have enough sockets left to make it pay off (after you bridge the gap every point of min dmg counts as 1 min + 1 max)
I haven't worked it out but you can use PPR's dmg calculator
http://www.baronsbazaar.invisionzone.com/ppr/damage_calc.html

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Winty
Joined: 27 Sep 2008 Posts: 3
0.00 Silvarrr

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:15 pm Post subject:


i dont think there would be any way to bridge the gap so to speak and use the same gain as lvl 9s do.
just making the damage more consistant while taking advantage of the extra str/dex u can get on a min dmg rare jool.
but i dont know where it could posibly be better than max dmg jools, althought i would like to giv it ago

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heprea
pokemon fanatic
Joined: 17 Apr 2005 Posts: 2408 BNet Acct/Realm: europe laddars
8.01 Silvarrr

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:11 pm Post subject:


iv heard some rumours that min dmg zealers do well @ 30lvl
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Winty
Joined: 27 Sep 2008 Posts: 3
0.00 Silvarrr

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:45 am Post subject:


heprea wrote:  iv heard some rumours that min dmg zealers do well @ 30lvl 
that was the origional thinking behind me collecting min dmg jools but at the saem time zeal is kinda restricted to melee only

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Jerkazoid
Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 2902 BNet Acct/Realm: wscl
4.86 Silvarrr

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:30 pm Post subject:


all +12 min jewels function close to the average damage of an all +24max build once you can surpass the weapons base damage range. but there is no way they can be better once you compare additions of +max charms from a pure average. And even with a narrow margin of damage the consistent return over infinity is less optimal. [If +5min lvl 30 Grand charms existed, then we could redefine the damage priorities]
the min damage build (i think) will only function optimally if it is tailored to a set life goal. meaning if opponents have 1300 life (with 0 reduction obviously) than a 651652 is better (hits to kill = 2) than a 11303 (i'm not sure but i think it is slightly more than 2.0, though i'm not educated enough with statistics to actually prove that)
EDIT
well i found this interesting, but i cant prove with statistics maybe this small sample can do it. Can anyone understand this and check it?
assuming 4 health opponent
A)2 damage (avg 2.0)
2 hit ko) 2,2
combos = 1
chance for 2 hit kill 1/1 = 100%
b)14 dmg build (note avg is 2.5)
1 hit ko) 4
combos = 1
2 hit ko) 3,4 3,3 3,2 3,1 2,4 2,3 2,2 1,4 1,3
Combos = 9
3 hit ko) 2,1,4 2,1,3 2,1,2 2,1,1 1,2,4 1,2,3 1,2,2 1,2,1 1,1,4 1,1,3 1,1,2
combos = 11
4 hit ko) 1,1,1,1
Combos = 1
combo total 22
chance for 1 hit kill 1/22
chance for 2 hit kill 9/22
chance for 3 hit kill 11/22
chance for 4 hit kill 1/22
1hit ko = 4.5%
2hit ko = 41%
3hit ko = 50%
4hit ko = 4.5%
SUM #hits * chance
1 = 1*.045
2 = 2*.41
3 = 3*.5
4 = 4*.045
avg hits to ko = 2.545
so the 14 dmg player even with 2.5 avg dmg takes 2.545 avg hits to kill
2.5 * 2.545 = the amount of avg dmg needed to equal 2min vs 4 life
6.36 minus 1 for max, range =
1min  5.36max
(the range of dmg i think? you need against a 4life opponent to be the same avg as 2 dmg)
what is happening is two functions: Over damage and Under damage
the problem with under damage is it increases the number of hits you need asymptotically (and as dmg approaches 1, # hits = life)
the problem with over damage is it cant carry anything over so the effective numbers in summation will result in a lower average output
*the chance for min dmg outperform a range version of the same avg is dependent on the variable dmg a players health can soak during battle (just impossible to account for)
i could only rely on average dmg, and min cant function as well on avg due to the weapon range and +max charms
_________________ Magic missile doesn't kill people, wizards who cast magic missile kill people.

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MortisNostre
LoPF
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 1083
0.00 Silvarrr

Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:03 pm Post subject:


Min damage chars at level 30 do not function the same was as they do at lvl 9. You dont aim to exceed your max with your min, effectively getting 1 whole average damage per subsequent damage add. Level 30 min damage builds work by combining min damage (namely from jewels), with max damage charms, in order to eliminate low overall minimum damage and even improving overall average damage. Min damage chars of this sort definately work at level 30, and certainly have their own charm.
Examples of viable min dmg lvl 30 chars:
 charger
 zealot
 Fury? (needs to be tested, but i think it can)
Bowazons do well with splashes of min damage as well, although im not sure an all out min bowa would be a good idea.
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