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 Forum index » Diablo 2 Discussion Section » General Discussion
MLD WW (Butcher's Pupil) build critique and questions
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Magi

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:53 am    Post subject:  MLD WW (Butcher's Pupil) build critique and questions  

Well...after serious consideration and research, I think I'm finally on track with how I'd like to build my lvl 39 ww barb. I've weighed the eth hone sundan possibilities vs the 2 1-h weapon possibilities and I believe the 1-handed option offers slightly more versatility/playability/fun/etc. This will be a B v A build (i hope)

Here's what I was thinking (critiques/ideas are welcomed)

SKILLS
hell-rushed = 38 from leveling + 12 from quests = 50 to spend
COMBAT
(An additional +2 combat skills will come from Immortal King Boots)
(An additional +1 combat skills will come from Battle Command)
Bash: 1
Leap: 1
Stun: 1
Leap Attack: 1
Concentrate: 1
Whirlwind: 1

WARCRIES
(An additional +2 warcries will come from "switch" prebuffing)
(An additional +1 warcries will come from Battle Command)
Howl: 1
Shout: 1
Battle Orders: 16 (max for level 39)
Battle Command: 1
Taunt: 1*
Battle Cry: 1*

MASTERIES
(An additional +1 masteries will come from Battle Command)
Increased Stamina: 1
Increased Speed: 1-2*
Axe Mastery: 19-20*
Iron Skin: 1
Natural Resists: 1

*I believe Battle Cry would help in duels vs melee. However, in order to spend the two points to get it, I would have to take away 1 from axe mastery. If I don't decide to get Battle Cry, then I would have 1 extra point that I would probably put in Increased Speed.



GEAR
WEAPON 1
    Butcher's Pupil with ed/15ias jewel


SHIELD / WEAPON 2 (3 circumstantial choices)
    1. Butcher's Pupil with ed/15ias jewel (main choice)

    2. Coldkill Hatchet with ed/15ias jewel (I'm intrigued by the use of this vs cold sorc's for the increased cold resist. I'll still hit the best WW bp with it)

    3. Upped Swordback Hold for vs. melee


BELT
    Immortal King's Detail


BOOTS
    Immortal King's Pillar


GLOVES
    Immortal King's Forge


ARMOR (3-6+ circumstantial choices)
    1. Shaftstop (vs. smiters)

    2. High Defense armor (vs. melee)

    3. Vipermagi (for general caster duty)

    4. Hawkmail (vs. cold sorc's)

    5. Stealth (when FRW is a must)

    6. Venomward (vs. heavy poison users)


HELM
    1. Guillaume's (main helm)

    2. Peasant Crown / frw circlet (when frw is desired)


SWITCH WEAPON 1
    +2 Warcry Throw items


SWITCH SHIELD / WEAPON 2
    +2 Warcry Throw items


RING 1 (2 circumstantial choices)
    1. Angelic Halo

    2. Rare mana/ar/stat/etc


RING 2 (2 circumstantial choices)
    1. Angelic Halo

    2. Rare mana/ar/stat/etc


AMULET (2 circumstantial choices)
    1. Angelic Wings

    2. Rare life/stat/mana/+1 barb or +2 mastery/etc


CHARMS
    dmg/ar/life sc's, lc's, gc's basically whatever I can get my hands on

    dmg/frw sc's, lc's, gc's as needed.




STATS
BASE
Strength: 30
Dexterity: 20
Vitality: 25
Energy: 10

REQUIREMENTS
Strength: 110 for IK Belt/Boots
Dexterity: 110 for max block with upped Swordback Hold

POINTS SPENT
hell-rushed = 190 from leveling + 15 from quests = 205 total to spend
Strength: 80
Dexterity: 60 (considering +20 from IK's Gloves and Angelics)
both of these may vary if you consider alternate amulet/gloves
Vitality: 65 (all that remain)
Energy: 0

AFTER POINTS & MAIN GEAR
Strength: 170 (from IK combo and Guilaume's helm)
Dexterity: 110
Vitality: 90
Energy: 10


Opinions?
Thanks

Last edited by Magi on Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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OutlawHeaven
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:44 am    Post subject:  

Pretty sure you don't need ias on your off-hand weapon, so you should find a jewel that gives more damage.
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krajee

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:48 am    Post subject:  

If you want something offhand for cold sorcs, a 3x coldres/ias jewel 3x ed/max/cold resist jewel naga could be the solution.
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Last edited by krajee on Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Magi

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject:  

I used this ias calculator:
http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english

When I put in cleaver + 45% ias (30 for base ias increase on Butchers and 15ias from jewel) on one hand, but only +30% on the other, it only comes to a 2.5fpa/10attks per second ww speed. When I put both at 45%ias/45%ias, then it comes to 2frame/12.5attks per second. Is that trustworthy info?

Krajee, that's definately a possibility and would probably result in higher damage than the Coldkill (after I finally found the jewels). However, would the +15% maximum cold resist be too juicy to pass up?

Last edited by Magi on Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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krajee

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:21 pm    Post subject:  

Yes, you will need ias on the offhand weapon to work.

The rest of your gear doesn't appear to have a lot of cold resist, so the +15% max won't actually do anything unless you can negate the cold mastery. That would involve a lot of gear switching or loss of damage and attack rating from charms. Weapon range could also be something to consider.

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Magi

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:31 pm    Post subject:  

Ugh...for some reason I thought the IK combo provided some sort of cold resist. Apparently not.

Hmmm...a "band aid" might be:
Vipermagi with a 30% cold resist jewel for 65% cold resist
Natural Resist: +3 with vmagi and battle command for 28% cold resist
Anya quests: +30% cold resist (but I believe I read something where this disappears if I die in that game)

That only leaves me with 123% cold resist. I *could* use ias/cold resist jewels in two spare butcher's pupils but that's too much inventory space. I'm definately going to have to get some cold and light resist on my vs. caster jewelry.

Maybe ditch the coldkill hatchet idea altogether for the two reasons you've mentioned:
1. range 1 (range 2 is already quite the obstacle)
2. lower dmg (40ish avg dmg vs 98ish avg dmg)
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Waramp


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:42 pm    Post subject:  

vs cold sorcs, i used a smoke mage plate with death gloves/belt, and sanders boots. i needed the str on sanders, and the ar was nice. but you could consider using nat's boots. and definitely put 1 point in natural resist, along with increased speed. 1 point wonders.
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Magi

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:22 pm    Post subject:  

I didn't even consider Smoke. Completely forgot about it. Would you chose that over a resist all (or specific resist) jeweled Vipermagi? If so, is it because of the fhr on smoke? The vipermagi still gets the 50%-65% resist (depending on which jewel), magic dmg reduction, and +1 skills (which adds more frw, resists, dmg, ar, crit).

Nats boots are definately a possibility for more cold AND lightning resist.
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Waramp


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject:  

either is a good choice. i used smoke to make up for the fhr loss from ik combo when im using death's gloves/belt
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KnightXENO2

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:51 pm    Post subject:  

Not sure if it messes up your switch gear options, but if it doesn't you might consider slightly diff BO weapons to save even more stats.

(this is based on the assumption that 6str is max on a jewel for lvl39 as well):
2x 6str jeweled/2warcry weapon (so 24str on switch)

Use your BO weapons to equip helm, helm str is enough for IK to go on, IK keeps itself on when you switch back. However, if clicking twice to pick up your body makes you uncomfortable, avoid this because a moment of forgetfulness can cost. Its never been a factor for me because I do this on every single barb char I have, but I can't say the same for you.

The life saved is usually substantial though. You will saved atleast 20-40hard points in str this way, but lose some of the extra ed the str would give.
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Also, were you the person who had talked to me earlier about a rare axe I had on Bnet or was that someone else?

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Magi

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:13 pm    Post subject:  

Wow, I'm glad I came back to this post to update with an additional question. I think I completely missed Knight's suggestion about the alternate bo weapons. I'll have to consider that.

The reason I came back to this thread was an additional question about my socketing options:

I've managed to get 1 perfect Butcher's Pupil and i stuck a 30ed/15ias jewel in it. Once I get my second perfect Butcher's Pupil, I'll stick my other 30ed/15ias jewel in it.

Now what to socket my Guilaumes Helm, Shaftstop, and (switch) upped Swordback Hold with. Here are two jewels I've picked up and what I think about them.
1. 27ed/9min/60ar/9dex. I was thinking I should put this in the Swordback Hold. It's +dex will help with blocking and require less hardpoints spent in Dex. Also, the ar is helpful when I'm only using 1 axe since I'll be hitting less overall (compared to dual-wielding).
2. 30ed/6str/7dex. This should go in the Shaftstop. It has less str requirement than the Guilaumes Helm so it will keep me from having to put fewer hard points into Strength (so I can equipe the IK combo to wear the helm). If I put it into the helm, then the additional strength wouldn't help at all to equip anything.

Overall, I believe these two jewels might save me 22 hard points which should translate into 88 pre-bo life.

What does everyone think?

Now to find something for my helm...
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Chronotrigger


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject:  

this is about cold reisit but dont the good old sig boots give 40% vrs cold?

and i know 19-20 in to mastery isa must but consider loosing a lil bit of dmg, ar and crit for a lil more Frw/nat-reisit im pritty sure half your problem will be getting to hit a fast runing target rather than damaging it.
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Endless

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:21 pm    Post subject:  

Ever though of using a rhyme shield? And using angelics+ammy+soj? Because at that level, ww drains a lot of mana for being level 1. Also for the charms I suggest using lots of max/ar/rnw scs if you can get ahold of. At lvl 39 it's all about survival having tons of life doesn't matter if you have to chase. If you're fast enough you can run them down Smile Also why so many armor switches? Are you planning to duel in norm or nm btw?
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Magi

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:15 am    Post subject:  

Endless wrote:
Ever though of using a rhyme shield? And using angelics+ammy+soj? Because at that level, ww drains a lot of mana for being level 1. Also for the charms I suggest using lots of max/ar/rnw scs if you can get ahold of. At lvl 39 it's all about survival having tons of life doesn't matter if you have to chase. If you're fast enough you can run them down Smile Also why so many armor switches? Are you planning to duel in norm or nm btw?


I've debated using a Rhyme shield, strictly in situations where the cbf will help me catch runners/tele'rs. I am also using a pair of life/mana gc's which has got me going in the right direction as far as mana issues. I'm slowly getting frw/max gc's (sc's are just too expensive right now.) My zon is full of them, and as she replaces her "imperfects" with "perfects", the leftovers are going to this barb. I'm also using a pCrown for the frw as a "bandaid" when I need to be faster.

Of all the armor decisions discussed above, I only have a shaftstop at the moment. I still haven't settled on alternate armors, nor (up until this point) have I needed any.

Almost all dueling has been in norm.
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