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 Forum index » Diablo 2 Discussion Section » General Discussion
Couple Game Mechanics Q's
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super-duder

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:14 pm    Post subject:  Couple Game Mechanics Q's
Subject description: need the info
 

FHR... basically you can't attack or move when your char is in hit recovery. What about blocking? Do you still maintain your chance to block?

Lets say that a char attacking at 7 frames puts a char into hit recovery and they recover in 10 frames. If the next attack comes in 7 frames will the 10 frame hit recovery char have a chance to block at their normal chance, or have no chance at all? Lets say that this char has max 75% ctb when standing or walking.

Also, if said char is running at the time and their ctb is 1/3 - if they go into hit recovery when does the normal 75% ctb kick in? Could you keep attacking (like zeal) and if you can keep them in hit recovery (i think at least 1/12 their life taken away) you could possibly keep them at 1/3 ctb and get lucky with extra hits. It seems like I've seen this many times.


Lastly, regarding the frw str bug. Your frw from items doesn't register on the server if you get the str by charms only, thus some desync? Or can another piece of equipment do it? Example: I'm using Nats boots with str req of 65 but my base str is 60 and I use a belt to get to 65... would that work, or does it have to come from charms?

If it indeed must come from charms then if you have any +str from items and die then you must un-equip and re-equip your str charm(s) since you keep those in inventory then p/u your corpse? Did I make sense with that? I'm saying that the item with str would equip the boots instead of the str charms... bah, nevermind. If I have to write an entire paragraph trying to explain then you are probably not someone who knows the answer.

But if you DO know - advise. Please and thanks!
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Mimes


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Couple Game Mechanics Q's
Subject description: need the info
 

super-duder wrote:
FHR... basically you can't attack or move when your char is in hit recovery. What about blocking? Do you still maintain your chance to block?

Lets say that a char attacking at 7 frames puts a char into hit recovery and they recover in 10 frames. If the next attack comes in 7 frames will the 10 frame hit recovery char have a chance to block at their normal chance, or have no chance at all? Lets say that this char has max 75% ctb when standing or walking.

Also, if said char is running at the time and their ctb is 1/3 - if they go into hit recovery when does the normal 75% ctb kick in? Could you keep attacking (like zeal) and if you can keep them in hit recovery (i think at least 1/12 their life taken away) you could possibly keep them at 1/3 ctb and get lucky with extra hits. It seems like I've seen this many times.



Not sure about the blocking part, but im pretty you can get people in a "fhr lock" where if you do enough damage you will keep them in fhr animation. Its the same with an amazons Dodge.


super-duder wrote:
Lastly, regarding the frw str bug. Your frw from items doesn't register on the server if you get the str by charms only, thus some desync? Or can another piece of equipment do it? Example: I'm using Nats boots with str req of 65 but my base str is 60 and I use a belt to get to 65... would that work, or does it have to come from charms?



Never heard of this bug before. So i cant help you there. Maybe test it out. Throw some Amythests in a junk helm/armor and see if you run faster. 40% f w/r is a pretty large amount and you should be able to notice if its counting it or not. Also when/if you test take off any other f w/r gear or charms to make the speed difference even more noticeable.


super-duder wrote:
If it indeed must come from charms then if you have any +str from items and die then you must un-equip and re-equip your str charm(s) since you keep those in inventory then p/u your corpse? Did I make sense with that? I'm saying that the item with str would equip the boots instead of the str charms... bah, nevermind. If I have to write an entire paragraph trying to explain then you are probably not someone who knows the answer.


I think i understand what your trying to say. Your asking if the order in which the strength is added will affect the f w/r? If you add the gear with + Str after your str charms will it make a difference?

If thats what your asking, i dont think it would change anything.

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Torrent


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:40 pm    Post subject:  

10 bucks jerkazoid will get off on explaining all of this.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Couple Game Mechanics Q's
Subject description: need the info
 

Mimes wrote:

Never heard of this bug before. So i cant help you there. Maybe test it out. Throw some Amythests in a junk helm/armor and see if you run faster. 40% f w/r is a pretty large amount and you should be able to notice if its counting it or not. Also when/if you test take off any other f w/r gear or charms to make the speed difference even more noticeable.

I think that the bug is server side. You wouldn't notice any difference as in your char would have 40%frw from Nats but if they are str equiped then other players would see your char at 0%frw (assuming no other frw) and you would jump around and desync some from that.
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Mimes


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:24 am    Post subject:  

Then almost all of my characters do that. Im sure if it was like that at some point, blizzard would have fixed it long ago.
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Meegz ?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:28 am    Post subject:  

I have noticed on my own playing that if someone is running and I smack em w/ zeal they don't seem to block as often even if they get put into fhr and stop moving. Just what I seem to see.

The other stuff I'm not sure on so I don't want to misinform you.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:02 am    Post subject:  

Torrent wrote:
10 bucks jerkazoid will get off on explaining all of this.

nope , though i guess i should appreciate the fantasy your having? Rolling Eyes and i would have to have called halfsees on that 10 bucks Cool

super-dude wrote:

Do you still maintain your chance to block?
yep

super-dude wrote:

Lets say that a char attacking at 7 frames puts a char into hit recovery and they recover in 10 frames. If the next attack comes in 7 frames will the 10 frame hit recovery char have a chance to block at their normal chance, or have no chance at all? Lets say that this char has max 75% ctb when standing or walking.
the game does not turn "off" blocking bc you are swinging a weapon, dodging or in the middle of hit recovery
your 75% ctb is on each hit that can be blocked, and it will be 75% (cept when its something like 'nados which seems to only be blocked at 1/3 your stat)
you still block 75%, even during the 1.10 induction of a non-display which prevents .09 "block lock"

super-dude wrote:

Also, if said char is running at the time and their ctb
is 1/3 - if they go into hit recovery when does the normal 75% ctb kick in?
as soon as your char is not running, this would occur the moment the character gets "hit" and starts the recovery motion [a recovery is not running]

super-dude wrote:

Could you keep attacking (like zeal) and if you can keep them in hit recovery (i think at least 1/12 their life taken away) you could possibly keep them at 1/3 ctb and get lucky with extra hits. It seems like I've seen this many times.

not during the recovery. what probably going on; the character is caught running after the recovery plays and is simply failing to defend itself,, running is bad news bears for melee's bc u only def about ~1:4 attacks at best, ,, its just very bad odds.

super-dude wrote:

Lastly, regarding the frw str bug. Your frw from items doesn't register on the server if you get the str by charms only, thus some desync? Or can another piece of equipment do it? Example: I'm using Nats boots with str req of 65 but my base str is 60 and I use a belt to get to 65... would that work, or does it have to come from charms?
the item should be "on" regardless of the display bug, this is why u still have the benefit of throwing decent dmg on glitched throw barbs,etc..... where the str came from, i did not think was an issue,

super-dude wrote:

If it indeed must come from charms then if you have any +str from items and die then you must un-equip and re-equip your str charm(s) since you keep those in inventory then p/u your corpse? Did I make sense with that? I'm saying that the item with str would equip the boots instead of the str charms... bah, nevermind. If I have to write an entire paragraph trying to explain then you are probably not someone who knows the answer.

But if you DO know - advise. Please and thanks!

.. er... yeah if u used charms to equip things, then took off the charms u need that str back to get the gear on in the first place

if u hav 60 and the boots have +5 and require 65.. u dont get the +5 untill u equip the boots,, and u cant do it with only 60. so u need 5..

this is where a strength runword could come in extra hand,
and even a single space item like an ammy / ring with much better space:str ratio (wasting only 1 spot instead of running back)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:01 pm    Post subject:  

Intense
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dainbramage

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:40 pm    Post subject:  

As far as fwr/desynch comes into play with glitching items:


This is the same as the famous str glitch where a character will not appear to be wearing their armour/weapon/whatever.

If you need the strength from charms to equip an item (say if you have 90 str from invested points/gear worn, 10 str from charms, and an item has a str req of 95, then the criteria are fulfilled) then the server will not read some effects of this item correctly - one of these being frw - and thus the character will be displayed as running more slowly than it should.


In other words, if it fits the criteria for being str glitched, then it fits the criteria to allow desynch from "invisible" frw, because they are the same mechanic/bug.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:35 pm    Post subject:  

dainbramage wrote:
then the server will not read some effects of this item correctly .


could you link a source so we can know what is not working during this "feature"?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:57 am    Post subject:  

It's in Librarian's faqtoids somewhere...


It's visual effects only that are not displayed - essentially just the appearance of the equipment on the character, and frw.
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peterpaulrubens

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:58 am    Post subject:  

dainbramage wrote:
It's in Librarian's faqtoids somewhere...


It's visual effects only that are not displayed - essentially just the appearance of the equipment on the character, and frw.


Vouch what Dain is saying. Librarian talks about it here.

Note that the bug very much depends on the equip order.


Edit: add link

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:46 pm    Post subject:  

http://www.lld101.com/viewtopic.php?t=41394

Mort mentioned this earlier, but it's really nice to see the nitty-gritty of how it all works - thanks PPR and Dain. I am really tempted to make a glitched Cuirass/Natalya's ele druid to see how effective this might be. Heck, I even have a +5 nado pelt wasting away on one of my mules.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:17 pm    Post subject:  

Roy wrote:
http://www.lld101.com/viewtopic.php?t=41394

Mort mentioned this earlier, but it's really nice to see the nitty-gritty of how it all works - thanks PPR and Dain.


You're welcome. Very Happy

Roy wrote:

I am really tempted to make a glitched Cuirass/Natalya's ele druid to see how effective this might be. Heck, I even have a +5 nado pelt wasting away on one of my mules.


Keep in mind though, that the desynch is going to be most effective when the difference between the server-side speed and the client-side speed is greatest.. thus using glitched Stealth/Nats along with FRW charms'o'plenty is not going to produce as much desynch as just glitched Stealth/Nats.

Examples (numbers from my FRW calc):
1) Stealth + Nats = 65% FRW = 7.81 yards/sec running. That's your opponent seeing you run @ 6 y/s while server-side you're running @ 7.81 y/s.... a difference of 1.81 yards/sec. You desynch fairly well I'd guess.

2) Stealth + Nats + 20x 3% FRW charms = 125 FRW = 8.73 y/s running. That's your opponent seeing you run @ 7.71 y/s (60 FRW from charms) while server-side you're running @ 8.73.. a difference of 1.02 y/s. You're much faster overall.. but you're not as out-of-synch as with just the glitched Stealth/Nats.

You may reach a point where you don't want more non-glitched FRW... I have no idea where that point may be though.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:54 pm    Post subject:  

peterpaulrubens wrote:
Roy wrote:
http://www.lld101.com/viewtopic.php?t=41394

Mort mentioned this earlier, but it's really nice to see the nitty-gritty of how it all works - thanks PPR and Dain.


You're welcome. Very Happy

Roy wrote:

I am really tempted to make a glitched Cuirass/Natalya's ele druid to see how effective this might be. Heck, I even have a +5 nado pelt wasting away on one of my mules.


Keep in mind though, that the desynch is going to be most effective when the difference between the server-side speed and the client-side speed is greatest.. thus using glitched Stealth/Nats along with FRW charms'o'plenty is not going to produce as much desynch as just glitched Stealth/Nats.

Examples (numbers from my FRW calc):
1) Stealth + Nats = 65% FRW = 7.81 yards/sec running. That's your opponent seeing you run @ 6 y/s while server-side you're running @ 7.81 y/s.... a difference of 1.81 yards/sec. You desynch fairly well I'd guess.

2) Stealth + Nats + 20x 3% FRW charms = 125 FRW = 8.73 y/s running. That's your opponent seeing you run @ 7.71 y/s (60 FRW from charms) while server-side you're running @ 8.73.. a difference of 1.02 y/s. You're much faster overall.. but you're not as out-of-synch as with just the glitched Stealth/Nats.

You may reach a point where you don't want more non-glitched FRW... I have no idea where that point may be though.


right but more frw is still better, more frw alone can cause some desynch, plus the effect of gear frw display bug it would be better than a slow runner totally counting on opponent's unawareness of desynch.
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