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 Forum index » Diablo 2 Discussion Section » LLD Discussion » LLD Guides
[30] Dragon Talon Assassin
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simpsonboy77

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:57 am    Post subject:  

Do you know the fhr break points? What should we aim for?
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Torrent


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:40 am    Post subject:  

Quote:
Assassin
FHR Frames
0% 9
7% 8
15% 7
27% 6
48% 5
86% 4
200% 3


He only went for 10 from boots, but I want to hit 86 (because I can). I don't really know why he doesn't aim for more.

And I have a question myself...I'm pretty sure this doesn't happen, but do eth boots do more dmg than non-eth?

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Waramp


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:05 pm    Post subject:  

nope
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DSotM
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:41 pm    Post subject:  

Why don't I aim for more fhr?
Because the only time I've had FHR problems is when I duel fire trappers, and no amount of FHR will fix that crap. Not only that, but everything else is too important to socket with a shael or switch scs for.
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mike_roch

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:12 pm    Post subject:  

The max I would aim for is 27 if that. Theres no real reason to lose life to hit 86.
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Waramp


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:50 pm    Post subject:  

sins already have one of the fastest recovery rates in the game. that 10 fhr gives you recovery that is as fast as a 60 fhr sorc haha
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DSotM
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:12 pm    Post subject:  

Yep ^^
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Jerkazoid


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:26 pm    Post subject:  

DSotM wrote:
Yes. lvl 24. Although I highly recommend staying at lvl 23 dtalon max because @ 5 kicks a lot of the time you're completely vulnerable kicking the air with that extra hit.


but 3 more frames?in a string of about 20 i dont see that as the issue..
its probably the actual cost when trying to obtain slvl24 on your build (i think) your experience says nay i take it

id take the 5 kicks for melee, (its a 25% output increase, and since its part of an uniteruptible string, its the best use of your assasins "time" to be hitting rather then not)
unless its a range duel with casters etc,, (in wich case ud probably only want 3 kicks)....
but in that case i would substitute weapon and use a range 5 strength brandistoke (as shield is worthless and c/c is not effective in running fights, ie claw block = off when walking or running) mana conservation in those fights can be a bitch

pure melee u dont need FHR much, the attack is fast as hell and uniterputible..
but vs smiters i always went for th 90%fhr mark, range 5, and some sol runes

as the thread shows, many variations and a great deal of creativity is used when building a kicker,, there are a ton of options
please note extra rushing does offer more flexibility in the build, and information conflicting to this guide can be based on that difference.

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DSotM
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:35 pm    Post subject:  

To obtain lvl 24 kick is simple. I have lvl 23 kicks. 20 from hard points, 2 from circ, 1 from claw. If I wanted an extra kick I'd use my ma ias gloves, however in my experience it proves useless, and IK adds much more damage.
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Jerkazoid


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:48 pm    Post subject:  

DSotM wrote:
IK adds much more damage.

at first i wanted to protest this claim.

but thinking about it i limited the idea to a single burst.. so
the hypothetical data (assumes 7/3)
16 frames/4 attacks, 4 avg frames per strike
vs
19 frames/5 attacks, 3.8 avg frames per strike

diff = .2, potential increase in sustained output upto 5%

so 4 kicks actually might be much better on this build and not just in a practical match, but in the math as well.
does Ik add more then 5% PvP dmg for you?

then possibly all that is left is the argument for mana conservation, essentially that is whats left of the 25% more hits

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Torrent


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:05 pm    Post subject:  

what about vs 75% block?

also, jerkazoid, since youre interested in this topic, i wonder if youd know the answer to this...

how would a strength claw do against a high ias claw for speed? how much difference would there be if i used IKs as the only off-weapon ias (25) and a strength claw or IKs and, say, a 60 ias claw (2 shaels and 20ias magic affix, idk if thats overkill or not)?

it would seem that cb SHOULD BE key for damage here, maybe i should just use rattlecage and not even think about strength?

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I don't wanna follow Death And All of His Friends
http://lld101.com/viewtopic.php?t=44473 (for my own reference)
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Jerkazoid


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:41 pm    Post subject:  

Torrent wrote:
what about vs 75% block?
hitting 75% block is pretty important to hit 75%, but if this is in relation to dmg mitigation it should make no diff.. the frequency you hit is the same over time,(cept more slvl means slightly better AR.)
something like -dr would be more effective the lower you dmg is though.

Torrent wrote:

since youre interested in this topic...
how would a strength claw do against a high ias claw for speed? how much difference would there be if i used IKs as the only off-weapon ias (25) and a strength claw or IKs and, say, a 60 ias claw (2 shaels and 20ias magic affix, idk if thats overkill or not)?
it would seem that cb SHOULD BE key for damage here, maybe i should just use rattlecage and not even think about strength?

the effectivness of crushing is dependant on
1) kick dmg
2) opponents life
there is no quick answer

but
sacrificing some speed for crush probably is not worth it, i would focus on the 7/3 + fade approach. only add crush when its minimal in sacrifice.. (or u know u will duel some 2000 life druid,, but i use to just TS charge on the oak and kick em with 1200 dmg)

i would ignore crushing as the build DSotM is working with is effective bc of its dmg/survival (crush was a tool Low dmg kickers almost rely on, the ones who barely touched 500 per kick)
crush is only helpfull in amounts above 20%, and if the opponent approachs 1600+ life
once kickers hit the 30 mark, its clear we should focus on perfecting the prebuffs and getting venom and fade up to maximize survival with decent dmg. the options of slvl 30 gear/talents really changed the game imo,

when i was dueling, kicker was limited to 29, norm rushed, w[L] season1
so i have no practical experience in this regard.

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Torrent


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:59 pm    Post subject:  

Jerkazoid wrote:
but if this is in relation to dmg mitigation it should make no diff.. the frequency you hit is the same over time,(cept more slvl means slightly better AR.)
something like -dr would be more effective the lower you dmg is though.


yeah, i shouldve specified...thats what i meant.

Jerky wrote:

sacrificing some speed for crush probably is not worth it, i would focus on the 7/3 + fade approach. only add crush when its minimal in sacrifice..


the only thing i would sacrifice is life. i have a 70 life plate i could use with some prubys, or i could use a rcage with one pruby.
146 life difference, and if i get lucky and find an 80 life mage plate, itd be a 156 difference.

spose that definitely does effect survival, so i could just throw either in the stash and switch when necessary...neither item effects stats.


also heres an unrelated question: in what ways is this better than a smiter?

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No I don't wanna battle from beginning to end

I don't want a cycle of recycled revenge

I don't wanna follow Death And All of His Friends
http://lld101.com/viewtopic.php?t=44473 (for my own reference)
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Jerkazoid


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:48 pm    Post subject:  

the 30 kicker vs 30 smiter? hmm

id go for 7 sols, range 5 brandistoke with sockets (maybe strength, but ias could be a problem, u need 7/3), 90%fhr (blade buckle?)

, ah i missed the point of your question. what better are u looking for?
fun? dmg? survival? griefing? price?

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Torrent


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:21 am    Post subject:  

lets say damage and survival.

also vs a smiter you could use two claws, a high ias one and a strength, so you could get cb but not range 5, which i know is the reason you're saying brandistock.

7 sols would also limit my +skills items. would four kicks be the best option vs smiters? i plan on using iks still and making a str/vit hybrid build w/ lvl 24 talon (provided i can get a good claw).

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I don't wanna follow Death And All of His Friends
http://lld101.com/viewtopic.php?t=44473 (for my own reference)
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