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[30] Plaguezon
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KnightXENO2

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:28 pm    Post subject:  [30] Plaguezon
Subject description: revised
 

This revision reflects a few changes:
Didnít stress IAS on javelins since even poison jav has a cool down
Added a full fledged build for the bow/plague hybrid (although mine remains a plaguer with 1pt into guided for almost no physical dmg)
General neat/tidy issues


The level30 Plaguezon guide:
There are 2 main ways to go with this character. Both are strong and effective, the main difference depends on playstyle.

Type1: The damage build
This is the typical/classical build and focuses on lots of poison damage, high life, and enough frw to run away from anything. Your biggest problem with this build will be dealing the last hit of dmg, although you have a few options. Your best finished will probably be lightning/lightning fury depending on preference, although if they get poisoned again they will also die (but this is problematic if they have sufficient liferep since they may not be at 1life the instant you hit them).

First the skills, if hell-rushed you get 41 skill points @ lvl30. Iím assume a full hell-rush for this although its not mandatory (33 skills if norm rushed only)

Jav tree:
20 poison jav
1 lightning jav
13 plague jav
1 lightning fury

Passives:
1x doge/avoid/evade (3 points total)

Bow: none
38 skills, leaving you 3 free to put where you want

Gear
Helm: Peasants crown (+1/15frw/stats/liferep), or a godly rare (+1/30frw/2soc/res/stats)
Armor: Peace (+2/20fhr/30cold res), Vipermagi (+1/35cold res), Spirit shroud (+1/cnb/liferep)
Weapon: a MAIDEN javs - +1zon/+3jav/30ias* being ideal
Sheild: Rhyme grim shield or helíd sigonís (+1 but lose block/res/mana regen)
Gloves: a rare +2jav/10ias*/stats/res low strength glove
Belt: 15/15 string of ears or a good fhr/life/etc belt
Boots: Sanders (40frw/stats) or Nats boots (40frw/resists)
Ammy: +1/stats/mana or res rare
Rings: 2x SoJs

*= ias is only needed if you want a faster attack on the lightning skills/jab/etc, so its certainly NOT required

Stats placement (with gear on):
58str (enough for grim shield)
85dex (enough for max block with rhyme grim)
Life Ė all the rest

Charms
A lot depends on the BPs you want to hit, your gear choices, and holes you need to fill. Example, if you have max res without anya already you donít want life/res scs. Try to shoot for 90frw/2048fhr/200+mana with as much life as you can. Since 15life scís are the best at lvl30 your going to be using a LOT of them, hopefully with other mods you need.

Your character will vary depending on what you did, but these were my final stats (when i put on 2x SoJ/peace):
FHR: 32
FRW: 85
10-->40 IAS depending on javs
Plauge jav dmg: 10k (lvl 24)
Poison jav dmg: 22k-24k (lvl 31)
1050life/180mana/45liferep/73mana rep/75all+ stack without anya quests
44/52/44 dodge/avoid/evade

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type 2: The bow hybrid
In this instance you will for-go maximal plague/poison damage in the hopes of making a balanced hybrid. Your fhr, frw, and most of your stats will be the same. The main difference will come in skills & gear. You IDEALLY want gear & charms with max dmg while giving up as little life/skills as possible. Although you can build this way and play a liferep version cheaply until/if you decide to pay for the bowswitch upgrades.

Skills (assuming 41base again)

Jav tree:
19 poison jav (1x less point into a synergy)
1 lightning jav
13 plague jav
1 lightning fury (or could skip this and keep full synergies)

Passives:
1x dodge/avoid/evade [3skills total]

Bow:
1x cold/magic/multi (pre-reqs) [3skills total]
1x guided
Total: 41 skills (no extra points)

Gear
Helm: +1zon/30frw/2soc (stats/res is a rare) [2x max dmg jewels]
Armor: Peace 3soc lightplate with 60-80life [3x max dmg jewels] or spiritshroud
Weapon: MAIDEN javs (+1zon/+3jav/30ias* being ideal)
Weapon 2: upíd rouges bow
Sheild: Rhyme grim shield (or eld upíd swordback for ow)
Gloves: a rare +2jav/10ias/stats/res low strength glove
Belt: 15/15 string of ears or a good fhr/life/etc belt
Boots: Sanders (40frw/stats) or Nats boots (40frw/resists)
Ammy: +1/stats/mana or res rare
Rings: 2x min/ar/stat/mana/res rings (or something similar but NOT SoJís since the lightning will mdr your guided dmg)

* = ias is only needed if you want a faster attack on the lightning skills/jab/etc, so its certainly NOT required

From here the only thing different is you get as many 3max/ar/frw or life scís as you can ideally. In reality, you will probably end up using 10max/ar/frw & 10max/ar/life gcís at first. However, since you still need good life I actually suggest you only use 50% max/ar/mod gcís and keep the rest as 15lifers (either res/mana/or max as the second mod). If you ARE rich however (all not good charms), you may want to ditch the max/life lightplate for peace or spiritshroud.
Light plate setup Ė 420max guided, 5k plague (assuming 40max helm/good charms)
Spiritshroud setup Ė 300max guided, 6k plague (assuming same thing)


Dueling strategies if bow switch:

Iím not going to do a character by character breakdown, since for the most part its not necessary. You run towards your opponent, usually by a zigzag route or circling around them, then throw a poison jav. Then, you back off for a bit and shoot guided arrows at them to: pin them in place, knock them back into a cloud, or just keep the pressure on. Sounds really simple right?

Unfortunately its not as easy in reality. You will NEVER have enough ar, so to get poison jav to hit you usually have to throw it into their path. Luckily if they simply walk through one they are effected. Since most people wonít willing walk through a cloud though, you have to anticipate their movements or trick them into it (which is where I find even a weak knockback guided to help). Plauge javelin does a lot of your killing since it deals its dmg much faster, but it has a nasty cool down time. During the cooldown time you cannot use any poison skills, so I suggest firing off a few guided. ALL of your attacks do dmg over time, so a sorc teleing ontop of you (or an Hdin charging) is a serious threat.

What you hope to achieve is constant motion, with hopefully enough frw to achieve some desynch. You also want to be reasonably offensive with the character. Sure you could poison, then run around while they die BUT its boring and no one will duel you. Instead, keep pressure on the opponent by constantly re-applying poison dmg of different types. If they are still effected by the 60second duration of poison jav, try to get in close enough to land a plague jav. If they got hit by plague, back off a bit and fire off guides (while dodging). The ONLY time you should mainly run away is vs charging opponents. Throw a poison jav infront of you and then run straight through it; chances are the pally will charge through the cloud and be effected.

Tip1: You can use lightning/lightning fury as a finisher also, infact that is the BEST way to finish a nec with bonearmor up.

**dueling with the pure dmg form is basically identical except you either run more or keep pressure on them with lightning/lightning fury.

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Last edited by KnightXENO2 on Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Puddles


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:07 pm    Post subject:  

Do you think that this character will be good against low level duelers with maxed poison resists? Why not Angelic Wings and Angelic Halo? I think you should use the rune word "Peace" instead of what you're using right now. Otherwise, great job.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:10 pm    Post subject:  

i want a rematch ofc Wink had a beer in 1 hand and a mouse in the other haha. but i will vouch that this zon is a pain in the ass if anything Razz nice job
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KnightXENO2

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:06 pm    Post subject:  

Next time we are both on I'll take you up on it waramp. Might not be till after finals though, have to see.

To Mr_puddles:
1) Max poison res is expected and doesn't effect this char too much, only poison length reduced by 75% kills this build. true fact, you could have a harder time dueling a lvl18 zealot than lvl30 zealots (because all lvl18's use deaths gloves)

2) Trust me at first I did try both of those, but I found them to be unsatisfactory. Angelics really is poinless since none of your attacks require AR (guided autohits but can be blocked etc, both posion skills hit even without ar just not the javelin itself). As for peace, the only usefull thing it had to offer was an extra +1 to all the passive trees & 20fhr.

However, the BIGGEST reason I switched my armor & ammy/ring setups was for mana. Since you NEED the bow on switch, you canNOT use insight on switch (unlike practically every other lld). I found I desperately needed the skull socketed into the armor, and the 20% regen from the manald too. Honestly I still run out of mana too quick in hard duels. Of course the extra 25-30liferep that came with this option was a big decsision maker also.

The biggest things I would change on the zon would be to get life/mana sc's (and maybe swap ammy's if I could find one with similar stats + 80mana.... yah right) to up my base mana. Possibly upgrade javs one day to something with +1zon/+2jav/30ias, the passives could use a boost and extra dmg is good as long as it doesn't cost anything. Aside from that I'm sure a rebuild/minor charm changes would give me more runwalk & get life to 1150-1200.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:48 am    Post subject:  

KnightXENO2 wrote:
Next time we are both on I'll take you up on it waramp. Might not be till after finals though, have to see.

To Mr_puddles:
1) Max poison res is expected and doesn't effect this char too much, only poison length reduced by 75% kills this build. true fact, you could have a harder time dueling a lvl18 zealot than lvl30 zealots (because all lvl18's use deaths gloves)

2) Trust me at first I did try both of those, but I found them to be unsatisfactory. Angelics really is poinless since none of your attacks require AR (guided autohits but can be blocked etc, both posion skills hit even without ar just not the javelin itself). As for peace, the only usefull thing it had to offer was an extra +1 to all the passive trees & 20fhr.

However, the BIGGEST reason I switched my armor & ammy/ring setups was for mana. Since you NEED the bow on switch, you canNOT use insight on switch (unlike practically every other lld). I found I desperately needed the skull socketed into the armor, and the 20% regen from the manald too. Honestly I still run out of mana too quick in hard duels. Of course the extra 25-30liferep that came with this option was a big decsision maker also.

The biggest things I would change on the zon would be to get life/mana sc's (and maybe swap ammy's if I could find one with similar stats + 80mana.... yah right) to up my base mana. Possibly upgrade javs one day to something with +1zon/+2jav/30ias, the passives could use a boost and extra dmg is good as long as it doesn't cost anything. Aside from that I'm sure a rebuild/minor charm changes would give me more runwalk & get life to 1150-1200.
You need a lot of mana for this build, but does The Spirit Shroud or Skin of the Vipermagi have to do with this? Are you using them for the 1 to all skills? Doesn't Poison Javelin and Plague Javelin each have attack ratings? Instead of Manald Heal, how about Stone Of Jordan for the 20 points to mana and maximum mana increases by 25% (Also for the 1-12 lightning damage, and 1 to all skills). All I can think of for now.Shocked
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:35 am    Post subject: Re: lvl30 Plaugezon  

The part where it poisons you has no attack rating.

I would imagine he is using vipermagi for the resists+mdr+1skill, and spirit shroud would be for the replenish life+cannot be frozen+1skill. The extra mods > Peace is what he's saying.

As for why you don't use sojs(from the first post):

KnightXENO2 wrote:
Now you will notice I didn?t use SoJs on this character, despite losing +2skills to dodges & plague/jav skills. You don?t want ANY elemental dmg on this characters items so a person with 1hp can?t MDR bug your guided arrow finisher.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:16 am    Post subject:  

i think the +skills from sojs are just too much to pass up. +1skill to plague is ~1k more total plague damage*. i understand the need to avoid the mdr bug with this build, but you also only have to do one damage with GA. i think a better bet would be to try and up your physical damage to make the negation by mdr less noticable.

what bow do you recomend btw, you didnt say. mine uses upped rogues.

i also use peace for the most part. except in good mannered duels vs a ranged missle using character.

one last thing i think the 2nd most important part of a jav is the replenish affix (behind the amount of +skills). i've run out of javs during a long lasting duel.

*note: i'm not 100% sure that's the right figure, i know it's more than the listed difference in one level that's on summit (~200). i'll be sure to check my zon when i get home.

edit:
these are the differences on my plaguer when i took off one of her sojs as you can see losing that one +skill was very noticeable.

plague
lvl 24: 10122/12.2 = 829.7 dmg/second
lvl 23: 8684/11.8 = 735.9 dmg/second
difference = 1438 total damage = 93.8 dmg/second

poison
lvl 31: 24138/68 = 355.0 dmg/second
lvl 30: 22042/66 = 334.0 dmg/second
difference = 2096 total damage = 21 dmg/second

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:48 am    Post subject:  

instead of a shael in armor or helm to make up for lost fhr, you could use 4 fhr scs.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:35 pm    Post subject:  

I updated this, if anyone has more comments please speak up.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:01 pm    Post subject:  

hey I got a question about this well im thinking about bow switch and I was wondering if glass cannon or vit build would be better? because they both have major benefits
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:28 pm    Post subject:  

remember the mana regen formula
120 mana = 1mana /sec

a 38mana Psap is adding not only 38 mana but also .31 mana/sec
since a Pskull is 19% u need >195 mana before the 19% adds more mana regen then a 38mana Psap.

with that in mind, a single SOj (since its +25% mana) is a very very powerfull regen tool as it compounds +manas effect. u can get away with 1 and use angelics to gain 95life + 10dex and some replenish.
its very hard to beat angelics imo its like having 21 stat ammy and 20stat ring, (95life +10dex is like 41.6stats)

lvl 24: 10122/12.2 = 829.7 dmg/second
lvl 23: 8684/11.8 = 735.9 dmg/second

2sojs is very very tastey and adds a ton more mana,, but do u need to maximize the already good dmg?
if its vs deaths gloves so much of the game is already kinda decided by that math regardless of +1skill, tactics will matter more, but ofcourse maybe same can be said for adding 95life angelics? imo i would take life

adding more mana with sc's is always a good idea,

also u can make up dmg with some jewels and charms. 3/xx/15 are always a good way to balance a weak GA area

u suggest ideal = +1zon 3jav, but this is rlvl 45, ... typo?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:22 pm    Post subject:  

I didn't want to start a new thread over this so I'll just ask here..

Lets say that I use 1x 6poison over 4sec small charm and use the same skill setup as the "Damage Build".

I directly hit someone with Plague Javelin... 6 Poison over 4 sec charm sets in and then Plague is then factored in.

Does Plague use its duration or the Charms Duration? I was testing out a Plague Zon similar to this in Hell Moor and the kill time decreased significantly it appeared to me. This was a few days ago and I currently dont have diablo right no to retest.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:01 am    Post subject:  

Irferno wrote:
Does Plague use its duration or the Charms Duration?
the skill is not using any other durations, same as nova and rabies. things like a facet or bramble effects the jav psn skill though

a direct hit with the plg jav would deliver the 6 over 4sec worth of dmg, but the plg cloud has a much higher rate and would overwrite that dmg and start its timer once applied.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject:  

OK hadn't checked on this in a while so bear with me.

To jerkazoid: I see what you mean, it all depends on preferance but I like the +1skill from a rare ammy. I'm starting to lose my bias against SoJ's on this build though. The MDR threat is real, but they make a hybrid alot easier (alteast until your get godly rings to ditch the SoJ) so they can be good temporary rings.

Yes the +1zon/3jav is a typo I'm sorry. I meant +4jav and +1zon/2jav respectably... not sure why that was still in the edit :/

2: dmg sc's/jewels only make up so much. pure glass cannon bowas I'vee seen are usually around 1k+ max dmg. My new zon attempt on ladder with half an inven on max charms (~60max) and 60max from jewels [i know this is far from ideal] and was only hitting 350mark without going for more dex. 1pt into dex was only givinging around 1max dmg. However, dex gives better returns with more base +max. I honestly think that even with better charms/jewels I'm going to need to go mostly dex to hit respectable guided dmg. Atleast with a hybrid setup (that is 2-3 +skills less than perfect) I'm still hitting ~7.5k plauge.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

To inferno:
I honestly have no idea. My zon on NL has a 15poison/15life sc and I've noticed it can be harmful instead of a helpful honestly..... so no idea on your testing.

*edited* for clarity. first post was a bit messy

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Young

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 8:59 am    Post subject:  

I'm attempting to make one of these on ESCL. Since the 4/30 javs I have are Ceremonials, I'll be making a hybrid with 110sh dex. Here are my questions:

1. I have the following headpieces. Which should i use?
- 12rep pcrown with a 16% ed 6str 8 dex jewel
- rare circlet +1zon, 30frw, 21hp, 15 prismatic and 1os.
- magic circlet +1zon, 30frw, 2os
- if using the circlets, what should i plug em with? I have an 18 ed 6 str 7 dex jewel at my disposal, as well as some plain 15 maxers.
- also, why do you suggest maxers in the 2os helm? you're only relying on guided to provid the finishing blow, so wouldn't it be better to socket it with ed stat jewels like the ones i mentioned above?


2. i noticed on your hybrid build you only have a total of 60ias with rogue's, not enough to hit 8fpa. is 9fpa guided arrow fine for this build? if one wanted to go for 8fpa, would it be better to use twitch + 2/10 jav gloves and an fhr/ life belt, or peace and death's combo?

That's all my questions for now, thanks in advance for answering them.
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