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ball/tag question for mods.
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oleo79

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:29 pm    Post subject:  ball/tag question for mods.   Reply with quote 

Why do some people get balls/tagged for something with no warning, but others do not get anything but a warning/thread lock, for the exact same thing?
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Virtuous

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:30 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

It is because our moderating team doesn't have a "sturdy discpline policy of non-favoritism."

And they cannot recognize the similiarity between two equal offenses.
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krajee
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:33 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

Virtuous wrote:
It is because our moderating team doesn't have a "sturdy discpline policy of non-favoritism."
It's because some people are green and others are orange.
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Dao Jones


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:28 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

It's because some people touch themselves at night.

And because it's not always the "same thing". Just because we're all mods or admins doesn't mean we do the job the exact same way. Some problems can be solved by closing a thread. Some require punishing an infraction. For the record, pretty much every legal system in the known world works on a similar "objective system with subjective application". That's why a lawbreaker with a minor drug infraction but no record can get off with probation, but a repeat offender with a minor drug infraction is likely to see jail time.

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Meegz ?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:37 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

Dao Jones wrote:
It's because some people touch themselves at night.

And because it's not always the "same thing". Just because we're all mods or admins doesn't mean we do the job the exact same way. Some problems can be solved by closing a thread. Some require punishing an infraction. For the record, pretty much every legal system in the known world works on a similar "objective system with subjective application". That's why a lawbreaker with a minor drug infraction but no record can get off with probation, but a repeat offender with a minor drug infraction is likely to see jail time.


Unless the judge doesnt like you and he sends you to jail on the 1st time. Had a friend gone for 30 days because of just that.

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oleo79

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:43 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

[quote="Dao Jones"]It's because some people touch themselves at night.

And because it's not always the "same thing". Just because we're all mods or admins doesn't mean we do the job the exact same way. Some problems can be solved by closing a thread. Some require punishing an infraction. For the record, pretty much every legal system in the known world works on a similar "objective system with subjective application". That's why a lawbreaker with a minor drug infraction but no record can get off with probation, but a repeat offender with a minor drug infraction is likely to see jail time.[/quote]

I completely understand and agree with this. I have come to the conclusion, however, that mods handle things differently. I only know of my own experiences and obviously cannot speak for others, so that's all I have to go from. In my experiences here though, your italicised metaphor to the system here, is not true :/

Ah well, no one's perfect. All I can do is try to abide by the rules, and if I forget for one second which forum I'm on (member of 5 currently!), WATCH OUT ME! I'm liable to get slapped silly with no warning...

Thanks for taking the time to respond, Dao. Sorry krajee, your post didn't help me at all though.

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krajee
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:36 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

oleo79 wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to respond, Dao. Sorry krajee, your post didn't help me at all though.
You're talking about this, compared to why you had your other ball 1.

green -> moderator -> only have limited access to the forums -> cannot edit user information
orange -> administrator -> have full access to the forums

It took me a bit, but our moderators can now do other things such as delete large and inappropriate avatars and signatures, among other things.

I always blow the horn when I see something. You really don't lose anything until you get to the ball 3 range - most people, after getting a ball 1 or 2, will think twice before posting again, which in turn cleans things up a bit.

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oleo79

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:51 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

krajee wrote:
oleo79 wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to respond, Dao. Sorry krajee, your post didn't help me at all though.
You're talking about this, compared to why you had your other ball 1.

green -> moderator -> only have limited access to the forums -> cannot edit user information
orange -> administrator -> have full access to the forums

It took me a bit, but our moderators can now do other things such as delete large and inappropriate avatars and signatures, among other things.

I always blow the horn when I see something. You really don't lose anything until you get to the ball 3 range - most people, after getting a ball 1 or 2, will think twice before posting again, which in turn cleans things up a bit.


Yes that is what spurred this thread, but it's not because of the individual occurence. I just wondered basically if there was a formula or standard, or if it was pretty much up to each mod to make calls. And I am aware nothing is lost by getting a Ball 1, I just don't like the look of it. And you are right about the thinking twice part Smile

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:46 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

krajee wrote:
It took me a bit, but our moderators can now do other things such as delete large and inappropriate avatars and signatures, among other things.


That's cool Cool
I will now go have some fun mwhaha

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Dao Jones


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:07 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

oleo79 wrote:

I completely understand and agree with this. I have come to the conclusion, however, that mods handle things differently.


Yes, this is true. It is the subject of occasional discussion among the staff, as well. Since there's no training program for "how to mod a website" what you get is different people who approach modding differently based on their own personalities.

Personally, I don't have a rigid structure I follow when enforcing conduct here. In a thread where a lot of venom has been flung around by several people, I'll usually just close the thread rather than tag someone. No point in balltagging a whole throng of people, after all. I understand that sometimes passions get the best of us - even over the internet - and if I feel that flames were a result of an argument getting overly heated then I'll most often just lock it and move on. Oftentimes I'll start with a warning first, but this depends on how far along the "fight" is. Sometimes a warning is enough, and sometimes a warning is past pointless.

However, sometimes flames are deliberate attacks. These are usually quite obvious. You'll see a conversation going on which may be a little heated, and then out of nowhere a direct, personal attack gets posted. That is a ballworthy offense. In those cases, I'll usually ball the offender, but leave the thread open, as I would believe that the conversation can continue without further devolving into a flamefest.

I don't moderate the trade forums (I leave that to mods who are more active in D2), but when a subject for discussion comes up I'm usually in favor of stricter rules enforcement in the trade section then I am anywhere else on the site. Trading here should be a benefit to the community as a whole, and people who screw with that damage the quality of our trade section overall.

Lastly, the individual in question factors into my decisions. Like everyone on this site, I have users that I like or dislike, based on how I see them conduct themselves here. And I'll be brutally honest when I tell you that some members get more slack from me because I know them to be good members here that positively contribute to the site, rather than just spend all their time trying to drag it down. Is this last part subjective? Yeah, it is. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what a "good" site member is, and is not.

There. You now have one admin's lengthy perspective on how he enforces rules at the site. At least I don't take bribes, like Krajee does. Didn't he used to go by the name "Gheed" around here? Hmm... Wink

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breakbeatz2
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:29 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

Quote:
I always blow the horn when I see something. You really don't lose anything until you get to the ball 3 range


Well you should change the description of the discipline system in the sticky, because that's not really how it works.

In my experience, mods haven't given out ball 1, ball 2, ball 3, then ban.

For example once I went stright from ball 1 to ball 3 (walking on thin ice)

Once Dao told me that I would immediately get banned if I flamed again (even though I had no balls)

And recently krajee told me the same thing.

If that's the way you want to run things then I I can't change your minds, but please don't misrepresent the way things really work in the sticky.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

Ahh... Breaky. I knew you'd stick your unnecessary two cents in here all too soon. I'm personally amazed you waited this long.

You'll note that the discipline sticky tells you what the system is, not necessarily how it is to be applied. It does, in fact, contain the essence of how the system functions. It does not, however, contain a rigid system that people like you can easily exploit. Let's look at your post, shall we?

breakbeatz2 wrote:

For example once I went stright from ball 1 to ball 3 (walking on thin ice)


Yeah, and this has been explained to you numerous times, and yet you have failed to understand every single time. For other curious readers, I shall tell you. After getting bumped up and down off Ball 2 status more than once, Breakbeatz2 wrote a gigantic "fuck you Dao" post within about an hour of coming off his Ball 2 status. Now, like I've said in the past - we mods aren't idiots. We're not going to let people like BB who think they can "play the system" get away with it. So we treated him like he was still at Ball 2, and popped him to Ball 3. Boy, did he e-rage! Point is: unlike BB, we aren't robots. We know when you're trying to play us.

Quote:
Once Dao told me that I would immediately get banned if I flamed again (even though I had no balls)

And recently krajee told me the same thing.


We've decided to leave you on Thin Ice pretty much in perpetuity. Why? Well, let's look at it like crime and punishment in the American justice system. You are what we call a "repeat offender". You've been a bad boy in the past, and you've flat-out told us that given the opportunity you're gonna be a bad boy in the future. (He actually pm'd me once to tell me that the minute he lost his tag he was going to call me an idiot. I still have the pm if you care to argue, BB.) So why should we let you play our system? Why should we let you wait until you drop your tag, only so you can flame me, or Roy, or someone else? Hell with you, son. You're a little boy, and we're done treating you like an adult.

Short version of the story? You're on probation - or as we call it, Thin Iced - permanently. Is there a provision for this in the sticky? No, but you know what? You're what we call an "extenuating circumstance".

Quote:
If that's the way you want to run things then I I can't change your minds, but please don't misrepresent the way things really work in the sticky.


That is, in fact, how the system works. People like you that have no respect for the rules, however, find that the rules no longer apply to them.

Cheers mate! Now go back to duping LLD jewels and muling them so you can, uh... "look at them" or whatever the hell it is you do in your free time.

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breakbeatz2
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:52 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

Dao wrote:
People like you that have no respect for the rules, however, find that the rules no longer apply to them.


I do have respect for the rules. You had no respect for the rules when you chose not to follow the discipline system of this site.

I flamed, and I was willing to receive my punishment. You decided to break the rules and give me an extra ball because you were raged.

Dao wrote:
Cheers mate! Now go back to duping LLD jewels and muling them so you can, uh... "look at them" or whatever the hell it is you do in your free time.


Thanks for the flame! I wonder how many times you would have been banned if you weren't a mod.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

breakbeatz2 wrote:

I do have respect for the rules. You had no respect for the rules when you chose not to follow the discipline system of this site.


If you think "playing the system" is "having respect for the rules", then there's really no hope for you in this world.

Quote:
Dao wrote:
Cheers mate! Now go back to duping LLD jewels and muling them so you can, uh... "look at them" or whatever the hell it is you do in your free time.


Thanks for the flame!


Please point out exactly what about that sentence was a flame toward you? I see a parting phrase ("Cheers mate"), and a statement of fact (" Now go back to duping LLD jewels and muling them so you can, uh... "look at them"). How exactly did I flame you? Was it when I said goodbye? Or was it when I correctly stated that you dupe LLD jewels (which you do), mule them (which you do), then "look at them" (which you do)? Or was my flame the "or whatever the hell it is you do in your free time" part of the sentence? Because that's not really a "flame"... it's sort of just an assertion that I neither know, nor ever care to know how you fill the free hours of your day. I could make a few conjectures, but those would most definitely end up qualifying as flames. Wink

Anyway, thanks for stopping by, Emily Post. Please respond again so we can next learn which fork is best for eating salad with!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:31 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

I don't recall ever being unfair to anyone so far.
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