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fg question
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ubermoose
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 2:33 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

darcanegel wrote:
i think it's crap...it's sort of like me printing off little stickers on my computer and telling everyone they're worth $5 each and they're a type of money, and then selling them at that exchange rate.


erm, thats exactly what banks do.

Money is just a useful tool for buying things instead of trading. How do you sell a house if money doesnt exist?
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zarc

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 5:48 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

not at all what banks do. The federal reserve does that. And they are the only ones who can create currency and regulate the flow of it. The system was/sorta still is backed by gold and its strength is derived as a comparison against the economy and amount of gold that other countries have. Banks just store and lend money at different rates of interest. I hate money and everything about it...i wish we could go back to the bartering system.
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breakbeatz2
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 5:59 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

What is corrupt about it?

You don't need to buy it. You can use it as a medium for trading (like sojs or HRs) except it's much easier to trade. It also can't poof, isn't hard to store on multiple mules, and doesn't depreciate since it is backed by cash.

Think about it - FG is exactly like sojs. Both are nothing more than pixels on your computer that have real value. FG is just a much easier form of currency to deal with.

njaguar is probably a millionairre because he thought of it and successfully implemented it on his site. Good for him. No reason to be bitter about it.
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ubermoose
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:20 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

Banks used to do it, the only reason for it being done by one organisation is thats its easier to control and you dont get hundreds of different styles of banknote to confuse everyone.

Gold doesnt play much of a part in it either. China has very little gold but still has a huge economy.

The only difference between regular money and darcanegel's printed off stickers is that the banks will honor the owner of the note for that amount, whereas i doubt darcanegel would.
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OutlawHeaven
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 10:41 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

Most of US Currency isn't even backed by gold anymore. Alot of it is digitial money on a computer screen. But it works fine because no one withdraws all their assets from the bank at the same time.

Money also has value because people think it has value, and people want it. If theres a demand and scarcity theres value.

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breakbeatz2
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 10:57 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

Yeah dollars aren't backed by gold anymore.

Gold doesn't have any real value either. It is only valuable because people want a useless piece of metal. Just like people want a useless piece of paper with a dollar sign on it. FG is no different than these forms of currency.

If I remember correctly, when silver coins were first introduced as currency in the US, they needed to be backed by buffalo since people had little faith in the value of silver.
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darcanegel

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 3:31 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

the difference between fg and dollars is this:
fg is regarded as valueless to anyone not on jsp.
njaguar won't let anyone sell fg, so it's a one-way exchange.
njauguar is a private company, as compared to a gov which is (in theory) the will of the people.
njaguar asks for (and in some cases forces) donations of REAL money.
fg has never been anything other than an electronic nothingness.

and fgg is NOT like soj's, fg is like SoJs bought off ebay. except worse, because the ppl selling the SoJs at least did SOME work for it.

that's my opinion anyway. my main problem with it is that njaguar demands real money for fg (yes, i know most people don't pay for it but as far as i can tell most if it was originally bought). they're selling nothing for something.
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Dao Jones


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 9:17 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

breakbeatz2 wrote:

Think about it - FG is exactly like sojs.


Well, except that you could always use your SoJs in game on your characters if the value of SoJs bottomed out, whereas FG is actually useless save as a trade medium, and if d2jsp closed up tomorrow everyone who "donated" money would be left out in the cold.

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Me!


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 11:01 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

Dao Jones wrote:
if d2jsp closed up tomorrow everyone who "donated" money would be left out in the cold.


D2jsp is so big site and i bet njaguar makes few bucks out of it i dont think its gonna close enytime soon and without meny alarming signs.

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dragonfire_god

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 11:21 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

No one is forcing you to own fg.

No one has been forced to donate money for fg, they do it because they want to.

You think sojs are really different then fg? how so? If bnet decided to close the d2 servers then anyone with sojs would be out of luck....fg is used in more then just d2 FYI.

He is not selling nothing for something, he is selling a means to get what you want and making a buck in the process. He has the upkeep of his website to take care of too....so in essence he works for his money....is it really much different then a music artist that records one song and sells a million copies of it?

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darcanegel

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 12:46 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

alright, i gave this a lot more thought (since i forgot to wear my ipod while excercising, lol) and I don't think that my problem w/ it is the fg, or how they sell nothing for something, although ethically i think that's borderline at best. My main problem is that they ask for DONATIONS. that is BS. it's a corporation, not an organization, and since he doesn't lose ANYTHING WHATSOEVER by giving people fg, how is buying fg ANY different than donating, except that w/ donating you don't get anything at all?
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ubermoose
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 12:48 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

darcanegel wrote:

fg is regarded as valueless to anyone not on jsp.

Well, to me, a live pig is valueless, but not to everyone.
Quote:
njaguar won't let anyone sell fg, so it's a one-way exchange.

Who actually can sell money?
Quote:
njauguar is a private company, as compared to a gov which is (in theory) the will of the people.

The banks dont chnage when the government changes [well, not much]
Quote:
njaguar asks for (and in some cases forces) donations of REAL money.

By definition you cant force a donation.
Quote:
fg has never been anything other than an electronic nothingness.

Only in the sense that your bank account is electronic nothingness.

Quote:
and fgg is NOT like soj's, fg is like SoJs bought off ebay. except worse, because the ppl selling the SoJs at least did SOME work for it.

If you only use the sojs for trading, then its pretty damn close. Each currency is useful in seperate situations.

Quote:
that's my opinion anyway. my main problem with it is that njaguar demands real money for fg (yes, i know most people don't pay for it but as far as i can tell most if it was originally bought). they're selling nothing for something.

How dare he sell his product for money, the thought of someone selling something that is in essence infinitely reproducible is terrible. [hint; all digital media falls into this category].
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Roy
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 2:43 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

Quote:
Who actually can sell money?

Money exchangers, for one.

Quote:
By definition you cant force a donation.

To gain the privilege of buying FG with money, you must first donate $5 to njaguar. So he can and does force you to donate to him.

Much of this debate boils down to a simple preference: how much should Diablo be influenced by real-life currency? Buying FG with their Visa card is one of the easiest ways for people to accumulate e-wealth.*


* We can also get into the ethics of an using an e-currency that is supported largely by botting, duping, scamming, and other questionable behavior/violations of the B.Net ToS. But that's not really the focus of this particular conversation.

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ubermoose
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 3:32 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

Roy wrote:
Quote:
Who actually can sell money?

Money exchangers, for one.

Yeah you got me, i think a better example for me would have been: Currency exchangers need a licence to do it. Njag is the same, he just doesnt give any [licences] out.

Quote:
Quote:
By definition you cant force a donation.

To gain the privilege of buying FG with money, you must first donate $5 to njaguar. So he can and does force you to donate to him.

I typed out quite lot for this one, but i deleted it just because i was just going in circles. But ill say it again, he doesnt force you to donate. Maybe Njag is a bit semantically wrong on the site because most of the time its not really a donation.

Quote:
Much of this debate boils down to a simple preference: how much should Diablo be influenced by real-life currency? Buying FG with their Visa card is one of the easiest ways for people to accumulate e-wealth.*


* We can also get into the ethics of an using an e-currency that is supported largely by botting, duping, scamming, and other questionable behavior/violations of the B.Net ToS. But that's not really the focus of this particular conversation.


I agree, personally i dont think "real" money should be involved. But anywhere where there is a possibility of making money you will get people trying to do just that.
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FreemanKind

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 10:06 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote 

[quote="darcanegel"]
and fgg is NOT like soj's, fg is like SoJs bought off ebay. except worse, because the ppl selling the SoJs at least did SOME work for it.
[quote]

Fg won't poof, mass duped sojs will.

Also, for along time you couldn't buy fg, you built it up over time with post counts like 1/4 a fg for each post or 1/2. Its somewhat a recent thing, when i joind jsp in 05 you couldn't buy fg with real money, it started after the first ladder reset, or was it the second...

As for donations, You can have other ppl donate in your name. I did this so i can play the raffle, which has won me over 400fg.

The main reason i joined was for realm to realm trades. Its so much easier to sell nl gear for fg then buy lad gear or east or hardcore or euro gear.

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