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 Forum index » Diablo 2 Discussion Section » LLD Discussion » LLD Guides
Level 18 Kicksin - Revolutionized
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Roy
My level 18s > yours


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:28 pm    Post subject:  

Yes, thank you. Breakbeatz got all riled up that I wrote a fraction with a decimal... only I never wrote any fractions. More blind rage from Break.

And Break, yes, the speed of my kicks matters quite a lot. Do I really need to explain it? Here's a hint. Slow attack speed = lots of time to go through 40 kicks. Fast attack speed = not nearly as much time.

By the way, your probability skills may be the reason why you became an accountant instead of a stockbroker. Yikes.

For people who don't hide behind hideously flawed math, I just dueled a zealot first to five, and I lost 5-2. The guy had all 15 maxered gear, as well as one of the duped blue 19 max jewels in his sword. His stats were roughly 687 life and 1150 max damage. Two of the duels I lost could have gone either way (tiny sliver of life left), two of them he was about halfway down, and one duel I just got butchered by four consecutive high Cleg rolls.

I'm still pretty green with this character, but I'm encouraged that I can at least make a competitive showing against a plus-average zealot. I'm hoping that with a little practice, I should be roughly equal to the standard zealot. For a kicker build, that's a moral victory.

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breakbeatz2 wrote:
2-15 isnt possible on level 18 jewels. He must mean 2 x 15 maxers


yarly
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breakbeatz2
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:42 pm    Post subject:  

Quote:
Good thing I kick at such a high rate of speed that I can land a couple crushing blows early in the duel.


Quote:
And Break, yes, the speed of my kicks matters quite a lot.


The actual amount of time that has elapsed has no effect on the damage done by a CB.

It only matters what your opponent's life is at. When people say that landing CBs "early in the duel" is important, they mean landing them when you opponent's life is high. While faster kicks means more damage over time, it also means more damage has been done before you land your first CB. A faster attak speed has absolutely no effect on the damage done by a crushing blow.

And by the way, your "fast attack speed" isn't much faster than a cookie cutter. Only one out of every 4 attacks will be a frame faster.

Quote:
With 10% CB, you will land 9 attacks before you land a CB.

with 33% CB, you will land 2 attacks before you land a CB.


The difference is astronomical.

Quote:
So I'd been toying with an idea of a level 18 kicker for quite some time - but I've only heard negative comments about how you get destroyed by zealots and how the class isn't viable except for beating conc barbs. Is the level 18 kicker really so mediocre? Or has no one bothered to build one properly?


Quote:
I just dueled a zealot first to five, and I lost 5-2. The guy had all 15 maxered gear


Sorry it didn't work out like you had planned. Making a non-melee character that can't beat a 15 maxed zealot is pretty bad.
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Dream
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:41 pm    Post subject:  

Maybe you should start the duel out using crushflange to get the quicker CB hits in, and then switch to your steel flail/range advantage later.
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Waramp


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:57 pm    Post subject:  

breakbeatz2 wrote:
Quote:
I just dueled a zealot first to five, and I lost 5-2. The guy had all 15 maxered gear


Sorry it didn't work out like you had planned. Making a non-melee character that can't beat a 15 maxed zealot is pretty bad.


my cookie cutter sin could beat 15 maxed zealots too from time to time. just thought i'd throw that out there.

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Roy
My level 18s > yours


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:31 pm    Post subject:  

Break, I made a kicksin that can beat cookie cutter zealots in melee combat. All along you've told me how much it won't work, and at each step, I've proven you wrong. I know you're seethingly jealous since you only stick to cookie cutter builds that smarter people designed, and you can only beat zealots with a level 18 recasting Necro. Gosh, what a tremendous accomplishment.

I didn't laugh at your shitty LLD Ghost build because hey, I've got better things to do. I know you spent long and hard thinking about a kicker build that uses SoJ's (LOL HOLY SHIT GODLY BUILD THERE). But you apparently have such a fixation on me that you continue to embarass yourself with gems like "You kick 9 times before you get a CB." Seriously, shouldn't a CPA be able to do high school level math? Are you just mentally deficient?

You want to impress me? Make a level 18 kicksin that kills a level 18 zealot in melee combat. Because butchering probability calculations and spewing blind rage don't really do anything for me.

Like I said - I'll let my dueler do the talking. I've already had much better results with my original set-up than with the cookie cutter build.


Dream, I've got to say - that may be the best idea yet. I'm embarassed that I didn't think to try it myself. It's going to be a pain prebuffing from the stash, although since I don't use TS that frequently, I may just rebuild with 3 points in BoS. The extra run/walk speed would be icing on the cake, as this build is designed around maneuverability. In my ideal world, I'll find a pair of Greaves with the 10 FHR / Half Freeze / 20 r/w trifecta. Either that or a 5/5 ring with Half Freeze duration.

I'm also toying with the idea of a 5 socket flail with 4 PTopazes and a Nef rune. I don't have Knockback on my gear, but sometimes the kicks do knock my opponent back, so that he is unable to get into range to hit me. If I could keep him out of range with kicks rather than quick maneuverability, it may keep me alive longer. The Open Wounds would be a small sacrifice (only about 40 damage over 8 seconds), and I would have to sink two more points into BoS to hit 7/3 kick speed without the 25 IAS from Steel. With this build, the endgame would be to acquire forty 15 life small charms with a lightning damage prefix. This would give me basically 45 to 500 lightning damage on my kicks - nothing too shabby, but since a zealot typically has 45 lightning resist, it could boost my damage a decent amount.

Too bad Howltusk isn't level req 18. On a side note, I'm not sure if kickers are allowed to go to level 20 under the LLD101 ruleset - if they are, a PAmethyst Face of Horror would quietly edge out my 3 PAmethyst helm. But I'm planning on staying at 18 with the build.

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breakbeatz2 wrote:
2-15 isnt possible on level 18 jewels. He must mean 2 x 15 maxers


yarly
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Dream
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 4:29 am    Post subject:  

I'm not entirely sure elemental damage from your weapon is transfered to kicks, but really I just have no clue. If it is that sounds like a pretty fun idea, and gl with finding the sc's. If I were you I'd just level to 20, I'm not a fan of restricting every build to 18 personally.
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Mr_Bilson


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 5:27 am    Post subject:  

ele dmg does transfer to kicks and there isnt much to worry about in the way of mdr bug becasue you ele dmg is fairly high and not many items have mdr at lvl 18 anyway as far as i know - at leat not commonly used ones.

as for helms, could a 30%edamage 2os circ with 2pamythist give more damage then then a 3pamythist helm? even if it was slightly less you could get some some cute adds.

OR even a 2os circ of storms which is ~1-100 light dmg or so might be good, if you go for an ele type kicker. Smile

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Roy
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject:  

Actually that's a great thought sooperman - I even have an unsocketed blue circlet of storms stashed away on one of my mules. If I could gamble a rare circlet with 2 open sockets, 100+ lightning damage, and 20 faster run/walk, I would be able to die a happy man. I'll probably eventually rebuild as an elemental-style kicker, even if I know that I may never get all the charms to perfect the build.

The other nice thing about the elemental build is that I would have to put at least 3 points in BoS so that I can hit 5 with my switch prebuff. 3 points in BoS would also give me the option to use Dream's suggestion and start out the duel with Crushflange, before switching over to the Lightning-Nef flail. I'm a fan of the added versatility.

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breakbeatz2 wrote:
2-15 isnt possible on level 18 jewels. He must mean 2 x 15 maxers


yarly
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breakbeatz2
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 12:39 pm    Post subject:  

1-100 light damage is only an extra 2.1 average pvp damage against someone with 75 res.

Even if your opponent is only at 25 life, landing a crushing blow adds more damage than this circlet.
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Waramp


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 1:08 pm    Post subject:  

Roy wrote:
3 points in BoS would also give me the option to use Dream's suggestion and start out the duel with Crushflange, before switching over to the Lightning-Nef flail.


i wouldnt nef the flail since kicks have knockback already. not to mention the knockback wouldnt work on jabbers, concers, zealers or smiters once they're attacking. i would go all lightning

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Roy
My level 18s > yours


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 8:48 pm    Post subject:  

Breakbeatz, you're a moron. Like I already stated:

1) Zealots typically have only 45 lightning resist
2) The endgame of this build would shoot for over 500 lightning damage, although it would be feasible to get over 750

But hey, you don't bother reading the thread, and you just throw out whatever crap comes to your mind. Run along now.

Waramp, you may be right. I might just make a plain Nef flail and see if it causes my kicks to knockback more regularly before I decide either way.

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breakbeatz2 wrote:
2-15 isnt possible on level 18 jewels. He must mean 2 x 15 maxers


yarly
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breakbeatz2
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:45 am    Post subject:  

Quote:
1) Zealots typically have only 45 lightning resist
2) The endgame of this build would shoot for over 500 lightning damage, although it would be feasible to get over 750


The circlet adds 4.6 average damage per kick, if you're only planning your gear for duels vs. 45 res zealots.

WOW 4.6 damage!!!!

The total amount of light damage on your other has nothing to do with your circlet.
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Roy
My level 18s > yours


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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 8:48 am    Post subject:  

Oh yeah, let's not forget the Anya bug either - my circlet would add 13.8 PvP damage per kick.

Seeing how my base physical damage is 160 to 250 (26 to 41 damage), this is a significant upgrade. It's over 50% of my minimum damage.

Yet again I have to explain things five times, solely for your benefit. Do you follow along now?


I dueled the standard 15 max / forty 15 life SC zealot this morning twice, and we are basically even. I don't even need to back away - just pick a good angle, hold and click. Killed him once with about 200 life left, died once when he was down to 4 life. If I step back to keep him out of range, I should be able to kill him consistently in a ft5.

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breakbeatz2 wrote:
2-15 isnt possible on level 18 jewels. He must mean 2 x 15 maxers


yarly
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breakbeatz2
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 12:10 pm    Post subject:  

Quote:
Oh yeah, let's not forget the Anya bug either - my circlet would add 13.8 PvP damage per kick.


Not even close
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Roy
My level 18s > yours


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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 1:05 pm    Post subject:  

More rage.
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breakbeatz2 wrote:
2-15 isnt possible on level 18 jewels. He must mean 2 x 15 maxers


yarly
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