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 Forum index » Diablo 2 Discussion Section » LLD Discussion » LLD Guides
Level 18 Kicksin - Revolutionized
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Elusive


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:36 am    Post subject:  

Roy wrote:
Elusive wrote:
and with melee being toe to toe dueling, even repositioning is frowned upon, at least on nl. initial positioning strategies are fair game, but not during a duel.

It's ironic that you tell me that repositioning is frowned upon in a melee duel. Does anyone remember this thread?

Here's a choice quote, courtesy of an East NL player:
Fudge wrote:
Toe to Toe dueling means no running away or fighting at range. It is perfectly fine to re-adjust ones self, such as backing up a little bit and then begin attacking again.


Elusive, I was always under the assumption that melee dueling meant stand-and-click, no stepping back, battle to the death. That was my entire argument stating that it is BM to step away and chase down another druid's spirit in a melee duel. But the vociferous responses I got, almost entirely from East NL players, told me that most NL duelers don't share that some conception. Consequently, I'm not going to bat an eyelash if I "re-adjust one's self, such as backing up a little bit, and then begin attacking again."


sorry i dont remember threads from several months ago nor am i going to read 16 pages of spam.

imho its BM to move from the duel solely to kill the spirit. if it wanders upon your path and you kill it thats fine. as for recast in dvd fury duels i am unsure of the rule there. im fairly sure break + others will agree with me on this one.

fudge may have said that but in all the dueling ive done against his jabber/mauler (which was alot) he never moved around.

as for repositioning there was a thread a while back about how initial positioning can alter your hit %. while i have noticed this and ran some tests there wasnt anything to confirm that any one position in particular put you at a significant disadvantage. and in zeal vs zeal duels with the sporadic nature of 44-1.2k damage, any tests to see if hit % is altered is pretty folly.

in any event im not going to whine about repositioning or someone using a stepback movement against me. adjustments arent that hard
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Roy
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:41 am    Post subject:  

dsm-hades wrote:
Hmmm if this is going onto a open category would it be plausable to use a blade furry switch with knockback to trigger off hopefully the first few CB's/OW before you switch back to proper kicking gear? I know it will be mana intensive but I'm sure some don't mind mana potting.


Interesting - I considered blade sentinel briefly, which is a strategy that ear_god used on his TS sin. My only problem is that I don't think I could bring myself to mana pot in the duel - I'm a bit too much of a purist.

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2-15 isnt possible on level 18 jewels. He must mean 2 x 15 maxers


yarly
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breakbeatz2
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 4:48 am    Post subject:  

I don't care if people kill my HoW. Some people do it, and other don't. I don't care either way.

When I duel DvD, I only go for their HoW if they go for mine.

But there's a big difference between moving to kill a spirit once in the duel, and continually moving around with hit and run tactics. It doesn't matter though, since hit and run dueling with a kicker doesn't work.
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Dream
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:38 am    Post subject:  

I would probably go with cloak of shadows with your extra skill points. I don't think your ar with TS will be that good, and in charging it a lot of chars will just destroy you.

I've built a few pure TS sins(after 1.09), and it's very hard to even get one full charge off during a duel. Sadly, on West we only have zealots at level 18, so I didn't get to try that char on anything else really.
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Roy
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:43 am    Post subject:  

I've been screwing around against a decently equipped zealot, and I'm afraid that TS may be the best option available. His gear was pretty much the standard - all 15's in his gear, and 40x15 life SC's. With only 4 points in TS at the moment, I've been able to get him down to about 200-500 life per duel. I'm still missing 5 stat points, 5 skill points, and 120 life from charms.

Dream, I can empathize completely with your TS sin - it's indeed hard to charge up. Even when I do charge, I don't always release because my first kick is often blocked.

I've gotten my best results by stepping back during TS, and then once I've gotten 2 or 3 charges, holding kick until I can release. I've been able to get roughly 5 charges off over the course of the duel. The range advantage works more effectively with TS than with kicks, since TS is so short.

I've been pleasantly surprised with the effectiveness of the CB gloves. I tried a couple duels using the standard set-up, and the duels tend to go as predicted. Early lead from a couple quick crushes, but I'm always dead before I get him below about 1/3 life. I'm looking forward to trying this set-up against another kicksin, although I suspect a kick vs. kick duel would be decided by who has more crushing blow.

I'm encouraged with the results so far. At this point, I'm hoping that the extra 5 points in TS, couple with a 120 life boost, should tip the scales so that I can provide a match for the standard zealot.

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breakbeatz2 wrote:
2-15 isnt possible on level 18 jewels. He must mean 2 x 15 maxers


yarly
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breakbeatz2
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:52 am    Post subject:  

[quote]I've been pleasantly surprised with the effectiveness of the CB gloves. I tried a couple duels using the standard set-up, and the duels tend to go as predicted. Early lead from a couple quick crushes[quote]

1 out of every 40 kicks will proc a CB against someone with max block. Chances are you don't land any early CBs.
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Roy
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:59 am    Post subject:  

With Crushflange, 3 out of 40 kicks will proc a CB against someone with max block. Gosh, what terrible odds. Why do people even bother with Crushflange?
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breakbeatz2 wrote:
2-15 isnt possible on level 18 jewels. He must mean 2 x 15 maxers


yarly
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:29 am    Post subject:  

Quote:
With Crushflange, 3 out of 40 kicks will proc a CB against someone with max block


No, 3 in 36 will proc CB. But to make it simpler:

1 in 12 will proc CB with a flange.

1 in 40 will proc CB with your build.

The difference is huge.
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Roy
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:19 pm    Post subject:  

If you want to compare fractions, try putting them in the same denominator.

With my gloves, I get 1 kick out of 40 to proc CB. Then again:

3.33 kicks out of 40 proc CB with a Crushflange.

OMFG TERRIBLE ODDS NO ONE SHOULD USE IT

Good thing I kick at such a high rate of speed that I can land a couple crushing blows early in the duel.

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breakbeatz2 wrote:
2-15 isnt possible on level 18 jewels. He must mean 2 x 15 maxers


yarly
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OutlawHeaven
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:01 pm    Post subject:  

Elusive wrote:
as for repositioning there was a thread a while back about how initial positioning can alter your hit %


Incase this has any relavance to anyone, positioning in melee duels effects how well you can hit your opponent, and reduce the chances of your opponent hitting you. Its basically "ranging" in melee. I think the most fair is vertical duels, in which your opponent is either directly above or below you.

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Waramp


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:45 pm    Post subject:  

i did some testing with a friend in zeal vs zeal duels, and in perfectly vertical duels, the zealer on top won every duel, or at least was very close. we were basically 50/50 side to side. but then again lvl 18 zeal duels are so random it could very well be coincidence, but i doubt it.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:50 pm    Post subject:  

Quote:
If you want to compare fractions, try putting them in the same denominator.


3.33/40

LOL nice fraction
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Roy
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:53 pm    Post subject:  

More rage

FYI - I never wrote 3.33/40. That hideous fraction is all you, chief. Aren't CPA's supposed to be good at math?

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breakbeatz2 wrote:
2-15 isnt possible on level 18 jewels. He must mean 2 x 15 maxers


yarly
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:17 pm    Post subject:  

Quote:
Good thing I kick at such a high rate of speed that I can land a couple crushing blows early in the duel.


The speed of your kicks doesn't matter.

It only matters what life they are at when you land your cbs.

With 10% CB, you will land 9 attacks before you land a CB.

with 33% CB, you will land 2 attacks before you land a CB.
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Elusive


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:07 pm    Post subject:  

Roy wrote:
More rage

FYI - I never wrote 3.33/40. That hideous fraction is all you, chief. Aren't CPA's supposed to be good at math?


Roy wrote:

3.33 kicks out of 40 proc CB with a Crushflange.


3.33 out of 40 = 3.33/40
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