LLD101

[lld-Zer0Cool]

hi im gonna make a kik sin and only gonna lvl her to lvl 29(for low duels)...i was wondering

does weapon ias or base speed mean ne thing for kicks...does BoS make a diference for kiks...2 claws or claw/shield? does elemental dmg from items (weapon gloves boots etc..ex: inferno stride has fire dmg, does that apply to kik?) add to kik dmg?

was gonna try to get at least 25% cb...and might try for open wounds and cb....not sure

[Mr.Snuggles]

weapon ias im pretty shure increases kick speed...dunno bout weapons base ias...your gonna want BoS but im not shure what lvl cause BoS adds to your attack speed and r/w....use dual claws on switch for sorc/necros and claw/shield on switch for melee's.....which means your gonna need sum into claw block....and ele dmg does go through a kick...but i dont think it shows it....it may im not shure....im not shure what gear to use...but i kno malice/steel (i think its steel may be another runeword) is good for kickers....if u want to ask phyre cause talyia (i think i spelled that right....and i think its phyre's...lol....im rly bad at remembering acc's /w chars) is 1 of the best kicker asns iv ever seen even though talyia is lvl 35 im pretty shure phyre will be able to tell u what to do with a lvl 29

[B[x]]

and his account name is *slayeroftheweak if you want to contact him online.

[xX_marie_Xx]

ias and weapon ias affects the speed of kicks.
also things that xfer through kicking are:
Magical Damage, Chance to cast X on striking, Crushing Blow, Open Wounds, hit freezes target and hit slows target to mention a few

I think the runeword you mean is strength....ive seen good lld kickers with strength. cant quite remember their level

kick dmg is mostly based on strength, non weapon ed, dex, and boot dmg.
For any kicker info go here:

http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?s=866e74f23bbd461e74a76100f78c86b7&t=127905

yes its high lvl but can be applied to lld....
I also have a kick calculating program i can send you if you want.

[lld-Zer0Cool]

also what adds to kik dmg stat wise...str, dex or is it 50/50 dex and str?

also does ne 1 know were a ias calc is for asn's and specifically kik, dragon talon...even if the calc does other chars thats fine, but i need to know the above

[Solartje]

i know a place and calc especialy for kicksin, but the forums are down at the moment so cant post url now. ill do it tomorow when they are back up.

what influences speed:
base speed
ias on weapon
ias on gear
1 or 2 claws
dominant claw

str and dex both increase dmg, but u cant say it with 50/50 or something, the formule to calculate dmg is much complexer. u should find all on the info ill give later

[Phyre]

Wow, I got mentioned.

Anyway, for kick IAS/frame data I refer to this site:
http://e.domaindlx.com/JRichard/D2/

JRichard is probably the most knowledgable person in existence about kicking data that I know of aside from our very own Jerkazoid. To give a rough summary, your kick speed is determined by this formula:

The EIAS (Effective Increased Attack Speed) formula is:

EIAS = ((120*ias)/(120+ias)) + skill_ias ? WSM

WSM is your weapon's base speed. For example, a Blade Talon is base speed -20. The speeds are listed on the Arreat Summit site. You need 63 EIAS in order to attain max 7 frame kick speed.

To answer your questions specifically:
Q: does weapon ias or base speed mean ne thing for kicks?
A: Yes, refer to the formula I listed to see how.

Q: does BoS make a diference for kiks?
A: Yes, it is listed as "skill_ias" in the formula.

Q: 2 claws or claw/shield?
A: 2 claws are only used for dealing with casters so you can block their attacks. For all melee and zon duels, use a weapon/shield setup. You'll have roughly 40-50% chance to block with claws and 75% with a shield, its easy to see why a dual claw kicker would get killed in melee.

Q: does elemental dmg from items (weapon gloves boots etc..ex: inferno stride has fire dmg, does that apply to kik?) add to kik dmg?
A: Yes, elemental damage does carry over to kicks however it does not display in your character screen. For example, if you use Venom you'll notice no damage increase in your character screen when you cast it however it is there. If you use Inferno Strides, the 12-33 fire damage will carry to your kicks.

Very little CB is actually needed for most lld duels since they won't have a terribly large amount of life to begin with. I used to use a Rattlecage/Black/Guilaume's setup for a ton of CB but it didn't help a whole lot as I got stomped by Forreste's kicker who used a build with only Strength and Guilaume's. I changed up my build and increased by life total by around 200 and I'm confident if I ever managed to find him again I'd be able to beat him. I've beaten every other kicker besides him (because he's never on) with my current build.

OW is tricky sometimes. Whereas CB is preferred over OW most of the time in LLD duels, I've found OW to work great against hard to hit targets since it will continue to damage your target while it runs or evades you like zons for example. Also, OW isn't affected by DR% like CB is. So if you see a higher level character using Vamp and/or Shaft, switch to an OW setup to help cut them down.

[Jerkazoid]

[Phyre]

[lld-Zer0Cool]

ok i finally figured out how to use that calc....ppl have been giving me that site forever i thought it didnt werk, ok here we go, this is what i found

base fpa for kiks = 12 (right?)
wsm = -20 (for blade talons)
ias on gear = 30 (ill explain in a sec)
BoS lvl = 2 (ill explain)

ok so after playing with the figures the above gives me

total eias = 71

i do 7 frame kik this way but also get 2 frame follow up kiks (this is good right?) site says 67+eias u get 2 frame follow up instead of 3

so with a blade talon weapon (or other -20 base ias) and 30 gear ias and lvl 2 BoS u now have max frames for dragon talon right?

also some 1 mentioned that fade gives 1% dr every lvl...is that true?

if so would it be better to use fade instead of BoS or is loosing those frames too important? also what lvl should claw block be at to be effective and useful vrs casters? also is there a specific combination of claws thats best for dealing with casters?

[lld-Zer0Cool]

also phyre and jerkazoid u guys seem to know kik asn's pretty well...i was planning on doin dragon talon as my main attack, 1 point in dragon flight for the tele..outside of that im not sure what im gonna do...

i think im only gonna put 1-2 in BoS (according to cacl this can give me max frames) however some 1 said that fade adds 1% dr every lvl so is it better to go with fade for dr (i dunt think resist will be trouble for me) or better to go with max kiks (id have to chk, but im also sure i could use item ias to substitute BoS, but then i might have to sacrifice better mods for ias) and i will probably do claw block and dual claw for when i fight magic/elem type chars, but what lvl should i make claw block (for claw block il prob equip 2x blade talons...prob 1 strength runeword and the other try to get max socs..2-3 cant remeber and use 15all res jewels in it)


for claw block is there a type of claw that has better chance to block or faster block...or are they all the same, i picked blade talon bc i think it has the quickest wsm...but if it can only have 2os and i can get a low lvl claw with 3os, i might sub out the non strength runeword for that....ill chk calc and see how that affects my frames

so basically looking at:
max dragon talon
1 - dragon flight
1-2 BoS (ne more wouldbe a waste according to calc)
? - fade (always nice to have, but is it better to use then BoS?)
? - weapon block (good for fighting elem chars, but what lvl should it b?)
? - any other skills? (ne thing i missed?)

i plan on goin to lvl 29 (thats legal by lld101 rules unless im mistaken right?) so i would have...31 skills staying in norm....37 skills hell rushed (i hope i did math right....so after dragon talon, flight, BoS (20DT-1-DF-1BoS) id have used 24 skill points, leaveing me with 7 points norm or 14 hell rushed...so how many do i invest in fade if ne and how many in claw block?

also is it worth putting ne thing in cloak of shadows at this lvl (29), i know barbarians battle cry works well to lower enemy defence, but from looking at this skills table it doesnt seem to lower enemy def as much, altho it does also raise your own def, and since no other skill adds def for asn, wouldnt this hlp out, lower enemy def and raise your own?

[Phyre]

The BoS vs Fade builds has been around for quite some time. You need quite a bit of ias to make up for the lack of BoS if you want to hit max kick speed, but if you think you can balance speed with other mods, then go ahead and try it. However, I do believe Fade builds are one of those all or nothing kind of builds. So if you are going to invest in using Fade, you are going to want to take it as high as possible which will spread your points thin.

1 point into Weapon block will be okay, use your Shadow skills prebuff claws for a higher block rate as well due to the +skills. As you guessed, any claw will block the same. However, your kick speed is a result of both claw's wsm when you are dual weilding so ideally you'll want Blade Talons. One other note, claw block is great for necros and fire sorcs for example but I would recomend going with a res shield against cold sorcs instead of trying to rely on block. Their cold mastery can drop your res down pretty low and that will kill you fast if you don't have stacked res.

[lld-Zer0Cool]

right, basically im gonna get 2x either +1 asn skill or +1shadow skill claws for switch when i cast ne shadow skill...so when i duel a magic/elem char, i would probably do strength blade talon and a 3soc scissoris katar (from looking at the base items, blade talons cannnot have +skills...scissoris katar can have +skill, 3os and is -10 wsm)

from looking at the ias calc it says when u use 2 claws, the first claw equip (which should be left side) is what plays into the ias....so would strength balde talon and a 3soc scissors katar still leave me at max frames considering the calc i posted earlier?

[Guest]

but a fade build gets alot of resistance as well,, add weapons block for about 30-40% blocking and thats really helpfull on foh, cold sorc,, and claw block is really nice smiters and hammerdin

its just a matter of working out the ias..a weapon switch would be in order with sheals to hit a good speed..

if the sacrifice for res and wpn blocking is better then the dmg lost from speed,, go that more defensive route.


lld101 rules state stay in norm at lvl 29 to particioate in their tournements

[lld-Zer0Cool]

yeah i now im staying lvl 29 bc of that, otherwise i would go 30 and use up'd goblin toe ... maybe for a pub kiker ill go 30