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[18] Clegs zealot
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ATOMICMAN
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:30 pm    Post subject:  [18] Clegs zealot  

ok since i get asked pretty much everyday about my pally its about time i just make a guide for him, this is for those who already read saytuns guide here http://wirsz.phpwebhosting.com/LLDBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3931

this is for those who want a pally thats a little different from the scepter/pick using zealots. with that said this is still a cookie cutter so to say since it is a zealot Crying or Very sad but from what ive seen clegs pallies are very rare which is both sad and good lol. for some background around this; a lvl 18 zealot is easy to make with the basics and doesnt really cost much but going from that they get expensive and fast. now with a clegs pally they get to be more charm intensive beyond the starter gear even more so than a scepter/pick user but with the basics you have 4-5 less jewels and have a pally that does just as well as a scepter/pick counter parts.

starters heres the stats:

str: just enough to equip clegs (55 str minus the +str you get from gear and charms)
dex:none
vit: everything else
enr: do i really need to say nothing here?

skills (normal rush):
1 might
4 zeal (i say 4 cuz i think 1.5k+ ar is more than enough for lvl 18s with usually 300 or less def)
16 sac

hell rush

4 zeal
18 sac
7 might

now for the meat of the build, your gear (for maxers 15s are standard +16 are for the elitists and increase the cost of the build greatly):

clegs (max jeweled or ed/max, 20 max>20/15 jewels imo here since the min increase on base 3 damage blows you get the same average damage as a 18 maxer)
twitch (max jeweled)
deaths gloves and belt
crown (3x max jeweled)
aerin shield, high ed is prefered along with good ar so id say 60%+ ed and 100+ ar (4x max jeweled)
cow king boots
angelics ammy and rings (if you have a good pre lod ring with more than 7 str and 100+ ar go with that since you will save in the stats department but still keep 1 angelic ring)

on your switch:
decent war javs (imbue some try to get more than 50 damage throwing)
aerin shield with ed/ar (4x max)

charms:

basic:
40x 15 life small charms

rich (with godly charms you will really start to see your pally exceed scepter/pick users by leaps and bounds even with pallies with equally good charms and jewels):
10x 6 max damage charms with life or str (1 str=3 life)
10x 15 life small charms with ar

stash:
45% resist all base shield (perf diamond and 3x max jewels)
45% resist all base shield (4x per diamonds)
if using eth repair javs a set of normal javs to use when you have to wait for repair
duskdeep (max) works wonders with smiters
i also like to keep a perf amethyst clegs also if i ever need more ar for some of the higher def chars that i cant hit normally easily

a few notes on jewel choices, you dont need max/ar jewels the 30% ar bonus from clegs makes up for most of the ar problems and lvl 18 pallies do fine wih 1.5k ar or more, more than 2.5k ar is way way overkill and you shouldnt go out of your way to get more ar unless you can afford charms to make up for it, dont waste sockets and damage to get it...

now for some of my proof for why i think clegs>scepters:

1: price- for one you are short 4-5 jewels leaving more to spend on your charms and you dont have to spend the currency to get a +skill scepter (seen +3 zeal scepters get 5-20 sojs, and for those that saw my april fools trade with the perfect stat scepter i was offered more than 120 sojs worth of gear thats $60 us now tell me you want to spend that on a lld you coul get a whole char setup for that for another lld where as you could just use clegs and have both Laughing)
2: damage- a perfectly equiped clegs user does over 40-1.2k physical and a perfecly equiped damage charm based sceper user (thats a +3 zeal +3 conc 15% ed 3 ar scepter btw) hits 100-1.8k while clegs has more ar both have similar life. clegs 50% ds more or less hits every other time for 2x damage, over the course of a duel you can plan on around 4-6 hits to kill one or the other pally with that said if ds hits every other time you get the average of 60-1.8k physical which is more or less the same damage as the scepter user with more ar. now te fact is that there are no +3 zeal +3 conc war scepters floating around where as you can get clegs for free in most cases and the fact you save on 4 jewels over the scepter.
3: availability- you can get clegs for free in most cases where as a godly scepter is hard to get and cost a fortune.
4: style points: hey you are one of the few that use clegs
Wink.

any questions that ARENT aswered here please feel free to pm me Rolling Eyes

whelp time to drink some more Crying or Very sad

*edit*

well as most know now this is the normal lvl 18 zealot cookie cutter now and is no longer as rare as it once was.

after more extensive testing, the only other weapon that can beat clegs now is eth rep rare war scepters with near perfect mods of which needing near max ed for lvl, +max damage, ar, 2 sockets, ias, eth, repair, +zeal AND +conc. even then you need to redo how you gear your pally (i will not tell anyone exactly how this is done) there is really only one way to gear a pally with a scepter like this that will beat a clegs pally otherwise equally geared and charmed. clegs ds makes any other weapon completely sub par as your average damage will not reach what you can do with clegs (aslong as you compare equally geared chars).

some side notes now. i no longer say a perf amethyst clegs stashed is a good idea now that there are a few def chars out and the ar you get isnt worth much after the testing ive done. if you want to go after def builds you would need a new shield and maybe a visionaries helm of the sun with max/ar jewels and a ed/ar shield with 4x max/ar jewels to boost yourself up but i wouldnt bother unless you have alot to burn on extra gear. but 1.5k ar is more then enough for the most part when you are dueling normal chars as the change in chance to hit only differs by at most 6% or 7% which when you are already have a chance higher then 85% its not much different when most duels end with 5 or less connecting hits most duels rarely last more then 5 or 6 zeals total. the stats you should concern yourself in order are damage, life, and ar.

and as most people now know, my lvl 18 has expired so i cant offer any more closed bnet duels. maybe one of these days i will come back and unleash a new more powerful zealot build that will take bnet by storm Twisted Evil .

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Last edited by ATOMICMAN on Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:50 pm; edited 6 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:28 pm    Post subject:  

thanks! ive been reading your responses to everyones questions, but this is a quick way to get ALL the information at once. Very Happy

oh, and i am in process of making a clegs lvl 18 zealot.... mainly due to your posts and fervent admiration for the sword. Wink

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:17 pm    Post subject: 4 soc aerin  

Do they have mods?? ( 4 soc aerin )


I have a 4 soc superior Heraldic Shield.
lvl 12 8% ED all resistance 33

I have not added jewels, is it worth adding??? I,m building a lvl 18
zealer . Thanks,Pepper
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 4 soc aerin  

pepper wrote:
Do they have mods?? ( 4 soc aerin )


I have a 4 soc superior Heraldic Shield.
lvl 12 8% ED all resistance 33

I have not added jewels, is it worth adding??? I,m building a lvl 18
zealer . Thanks,Pepper


heh no...waste of jools. sry to tell you : /
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:01 pm    Post subject:  

ok if your vs'ing casters as a switch shield... but dont waste good jewels in it...
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:26 pm    Post subject: 4 soc aerin  

Thanks Fadex/Dsm, i'll save my jewels for something better.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:50 am    Post subject:  

for casters a perf diamond 3x 15 maxers 45% resist all base aerin/heraldic shield is bestgives just enough resists to copensate for teh the anya quest bug and keep you at max resists (and if you havent died will have some ok stacked resists not much but anything can help with a cold sorc or a foher)

i edited my original post to reflect some possible stash items for optional dueling

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: level 18 clegs zealot  

ATOMICMAN wrote:
now for the meat of the build, your gear (for maxers 15s are standard +16 are for the elitists and increase the cost of the build greatly):

clegs (max jeweled or ed/max, 20 max>20/15 jewels imo here since the min increase on base 3 damage blows you get the same average damage as a 18 maxer)


Ummm. i thought the ed/max bug was only on NON weapon items...like a jewel going into a helm. In that case 20max>20/15, but for a weapon, i think the opposite.

Also u said that 1.5k ar is enough, so only 4 into zeal......thats all well and fine vs casters or pubbies, but what about real llder using a defense barb or smiter? I'd say 7 into zeal.

Think that's it...but didn't finish reading yet.....I do like clegs though\


edit: ok finished guide...thought it would be a good idea to let them know where to FIND / CUBE this gear....as they may not have the resources to trade for it. 8player Cows nightmare(with 0 mf or lowest u can get) is good for finding 60-65%ed/100-121ar shields.....i would recommend heraldic/aerin seeing as u'll still have max block with cow king boots and they have lower str requirements than crown shield (50 as opposed to 65). A Rondache MIGHT get u max block, but has crappy defense like heraldic....aerin is best if u wont have 65str.

Also u can use a cube recipe to re-roll magic jewels so u can get some max damage going without paying much for them. Farm Normal Meph's Durance lvl 2....open all chests and baskets (they give jewels/grand charms with the right lvl). As for monsters...only re-roll jewels/grand charms that you KNOW came from a NORMAL zombie or a mauler....the dolls and lord casters aren't the right lvl. Also dont use jewels that drop from unique packs or champions...they are slightly higher lvl...takes a little while, but once u get 3-4 of them that you are SURE came from NORMAL zombie, mauler, chest(locked is ok), or basket, you can start trading for pgems. Anyway u can get 40pgems for pul, so i usualy end up making MF games with names like TalAmmy4 PulLem...Lems get 20pgems but sometimes i'll make game Lem4 18pgems. I just like the convenience of giving slight deals(depends on what time of day....or night). Doing this, i have a steady supply of pgems coming in, and cube decent jewels/gc's in a hurry. Say u find bloodletter...you wont get a Lem or Pul for that, but you can trade for straight pgems. Estimate the price and cut the cost of pgems IN HALF! This gets people in game for even the crummiest gear. (ie "6Manald4 3Pgems" or "19Vita4 3Pgem") I do this cuz most questers have a few pgems in stash....and they could be urs! You might find that once you have a crown/twitch/pallyshield full of 13-15 maxers, that you dont want to stop cubing if u come across a 14 maxer....i usually reroll until i get 15maxer, but mainly im looking for a 19-20maxer or a 15max with a useful prefix like 1-60ar, 7-12damage to mana, 11-20 enhanced damage(works in weapons well, but in helm/armor/shield it'll add the +15 max and the ed will only work on your minimum damage) Other useful prefixes are 9-20 defense, 1-4 minimum damage(+min gives same avg. dmg boost as +max so a 4-15 dmg jewel is like a 19max but tightens your dmg range which is good), 11-15mana, 5-10 all resist, 16-30 single resist. Dont be afraid to socket godly defense superior crowns or 60%+/115+ pally shields with 13-15 maxers......you can always remove whats in the sockets and replace with godly jewels when you collect them. Happy cubing!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: level 18 clegs zealot  

Calculon wrote:
Ummm. i thought the ed/max bug was only on NON weapon items...like a jewel going into a helm. In that case 20max>20/15, but for a weapon, i think the opposite.

Also u said that 1.5k ar is enough, so only 4 into zeal......thats all well and fine vs casters or pubbies, but what about real llder using a defense barb or smiter? I'd say 7 into zeal.

edit: ok finished guide...thought it would be a good idea to let them know where to FIND / CUBE this gear....as they may not have the resources to trade for it. 8player Cows nightmare(with 0 mf or lowest u can get) is good for finding 60-65%ed/100-121ar shields.....i would recommend heraldic/aerin seeing as u'll still have max block with cow king boots and they have lower str requirements than crown shield (50 as opposed to 65). A Rondache MIGHT get u max block, but has crappy defense like heraldic....aerin is best if u wont have 65str.

Also u can use a cube recipe to re-roll magic jewels so u can get some max damage going without paying much for them. Farm Normal Meph's Durance lvl 2....open all chests and baskets (they give jewels/grand charms with the right lvl). As for monsters...only re-roll jewels/grand charms that you KNOW came from a NORMAL zombie or a mauler....the dolls and lord casters aren't the right lvl. Also dont use jewels that drop from unique packs or champions...they are slightly higher lvl...takes a little while, but once u get 3-4 of them that you are SURE came from NORMAL zombie, mauler, chest(locked is ok), or basket, you can start trading for pgems. Anyway u can get 40pgems for pul, so i usualy end up making MF games with names like TalAmmy4 PulLem...Lems get 20pgems but sometimes i'll make game Lem4 18pgems. I just like the convenience of giving slight deals(depends on what time of day....or night). Doing this, i have a steady supply of pgems coming in, and cube decent jewels/gc's in a hurry. Say u find bloodletter...you wont get a Lem or Pul for that, but you can trade for straight pgems. Estimate the price and cut the cost of pgems IN HALF! This gets people in game for even the crummiest gear. (ie "6Manald4 3Pgems" or "19Vita4 3Pgem") I do this cuz most questers have a few pgems in stash....and they could be urs! You might find that once you have a crown/twitch/pallyshield full of 13-15 maxers, that you dont want to stop cubing if u come across a 14 maxer....i usually reroll until i get 15maxer, but mainly im looking for a 19-20maxer or a 15max with a useful prefix like 1-60ar, 7-12damage to mana, 11-20 enhanced damage(works in weapons well, but in helm/armor/shield it'll add the +15 max and the ed will only work on your minimum damage) Other useful prefixes are 9-20 defense, 1-4 minimum damage(+min gives same avg. dmg boost as +max so a 4-15 dmg jewel is like a 19max but tightens your dmg range which is good), 11-15mana, 5-10 all resist, 16-30 single resist. Dont be afraid to socket godly defense superior crowns or 60%+/115+ pally shields with 13-15 maxers......you can always remove whats in the sockets and replace with godly jewels when you collect them. Happy cubing!!!


first off double check arreat for the damage on a long sword, 3 max damage is what the min is 20% of 3 is not going to add to min damage thus only offering 3 max from ed and 15 max from the carnage mod giving you the same increase damage as a 18 max jewel

as for cubing a jewel, it gives you the same ilvl as before, you need to be positive you have the correct lvl jewel before you cube because you can have a lower lvl jewel then is needed to spawn both carbuncle and carnage on the same jewel but also need a jewel close enough in lvl to make it easier to cube a jewel with the correct mods

unless you are a def build there is no excuse for getting 65 str to use a crown shield aerins get up to 41 def compared to a crowns max def of 46 and since you have enough blocking even with a targe (dex from angelics and cow kings, and +block from twitch) you have max block, second on that you should not be overly concerned with your def to the point where it will use jewels that hurt your damage or make you lose life due to the higher reqs.

as for the ar issue, 1.5k ar is just fine, unless you have 4k ar a good def build will rip you apart anyway and it isnt worth the loss in damage to get a few more % in chance to hit for a rare lvl 18 build (there are only a couple def chars on east nl right now)

as for finding items its pretty well known normal-hell cows is the best all around spot to mf lld gear

i suggest you take a look at arreat and read up on some stuff youll find what i listed is exactly how you would want to make a clegs pally for pure offense

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: level 18 clegs zealot  

ATOMICMAN wrote:


first off double check arreat for the damage on a long sword, 3 max damage is what the min is 20% of 3 is not going to add to min damage thus only offering 3 max from ed and 15 max from the carnage mod giving you the same increase damage as a 18 max jewel

true true...i guess i was speaking for weapons in general...forgot its a pure cleg build.

ATOMICMAN wrote:

as for cubing a jewel, it gives you the same ilvl as before, you need to be positive you have the correct lvl jewel before you cube because you can have a lower lvl jewel then is needed to spawn both carbuncle and carnage on the same jewel but also need a jewel close enough in lvl to make it easier to cube a jewel with the correct mods


pretty sure ilvl 25 will get u carbuncle and carnage. I've never heard of any increase in required ilvl to spawn 2 alvl 25 mods.

ATOMICMAN wrote:

as for the ar issue, 1.5k ar is just fine, unless you have 4k ar a good def build will rip you apart anyway and it isnt worth the loss in damage to get a few more % in chance to hit for a rare lvl 18 build (there are only a couple def chars on east nl right now)


I like to fight higher lvls sometimes so i like to have a little extra ar%(~2.2k so far)....and im ladder not nl so there may be differences. And i don't like to build my chars in a way that a good def build can just rip up, thus damage+ar. I might create a chart comparing def/ar and rate the increases in avg dmg over 2 or 3 zeal sequences and chart it to find the optimal ratio of ar/dmg. I dont think most def builds use death sash, but i could be mistaken....maybe cold dmg charms would help.

ATOMICMAN wrote:

as for finding items its pretty well known normal-hell cows is the best all around spot to mf lld gear

i suggest you take a look at arreat and read up on some stuff youll find what i listed is exactly how you would want to make a clegs pally for pure offense

Arreat isn't really the ultimate source first of all....norm cows i guess for scepters/sup crowns, stuf like that....nm for 65/121 shields and such(mlvl must be 50+). I've read up on stuff already. I prefer to use d2data, diabloii.net, arreat for some stuff, and this forum though.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:20 pm    Post subject:  

arg atomic bad atomic:) dont tel them the wonders of clegs:P
any how i agree with every thing u say but for the reisit u dont need over kil like that rem its norm i just find crappy max/resisit all jws and get resit and more dmg and i use darkglow(or something alog the line) i can pritty much own any and all lvl 30 fireball sorc with 95% fire resit also about to socket iceblink armor for the cold
on swich i agree with the javs wich i have in stash but i fuond a 5 soc 3 charge 1 con war cepter to kil casters/runners easyer that whay i dont waste skill pointsi n smite or charge but this is just a suggestion:)
happy killin Twisted Evil

on a side note i rarely see war scepter/pick users on ladder east i think thy caught on Sad
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:02 am    Post subject:  

Rule #1: Never question Atomic's guide...he is the uber master 18 melee dude!
Rule #2: Start saving SOJ's cuz Atomic just officially made hi max jewels go up in price and more scarce!

Going against my own rule #1 I'd like to update your "Rich" section for the shield...60+ is not acceptable if you have the funds. Since AR is not a problem and the whole idea behind this build is UBER damage...then 65 ed is a must IMO. AR can be anything 100+ but I prefer 115+ just cuz it feels sexier! Laughing

Of course, with all the new "Atomic Wanna-be's" (me included Rolling Eyes ) competition is gonna be interesting to say the least.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:15 am    Post subject:  

wfg-dude
Rule #1: Never question Atomic's guide...he is the uber master 18 melee dude

if no questions are asked or points challenge then there is no growth
im not saying hes rong or any of that im offering a dif option in some
situations

dont jump the gun yet agin wfg-dude Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:16 pm    Post subject:  

Chronotrigger wrote:
wfg-dude
Rule #1: Never question Atomic's guide...he is the uber master 18 melee dude

if no questions are asked or points challenge then there is no growth
im not saying hes rong or any of that im offering a dif option in some
situations

dont jump the gun yet agin wfg-dude Wink


It's called humor bro...look it up! Right next to "Laughing My Ass Off At your Comments"! U guys play too much or what??? RE-FUKN-LAX!!!

Jumpin the gun...ROFL...Switch to decaf...seriously.

EDIT: I was half - not kidding with rule 1 though. He does have a ton of xp with this build and he is "arguably" the best at 18 melee (on East anyway) on West Knifer might have him for lunch...but, we'll never know! Pleez comment away...be free with your ideas...but take stock in the fact that he is not a noob, knows what he's talking about, and has a lot of experience building this char.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:22 pm    Post subject:  

i would love to duel the top lvl 18 melee from west on open with copies of our chars

but anyway, i do have alot of experience with lvl 18s in general not just pallies ive made quite a few in my d2 life both on open for testing and on closed. on closed ive toyed with jabbers, ts sins, a kicker briefly, offensive zealot, offensive conc barb, bone spear nec, hammerdin, jab/bow zon, and maybe a few others. pretty much every char i make i toy around with gear on open (since the numbers from arreats and other websites are 100% exact to d2) and its trial and error some stuff looks better on paper then in a real duel

but its good peeps ask questions makes me second guess and redo my thinking maybe i might find something i didnt think of earlier...

now both of yas take it easy everyones trying to help no need to step backwards due to "humor" and whatnot taken the wrong way

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