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The time now is Sun Nov 10, 2024 11:43 am All times are UTC - 8 |
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haha(You got Bush)
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VoodooCamel
 Joined: 11 Feb 2004 Posts: 307 BNet Acct/Realm: Gettin' Owned USEast Style  0.00 Silvarrr |
I was just talking to my dad on the phone, and I asked him who he voted for. He paused a moment and said, "Bush". Granted Kerry won my state, but when I asked my dad why [hes a registered Democrat] he didn't really have an answer. A friend of mine lives in a house that is falling apart, and his parents can't afford to send him to college so he is going to have to work alot to help pay for it, and he voted for Bush. When I asked him why, he just shrugged and said "Dunno". This makes absolutely no sense to me at all. People are all seeing stars [and stripes  ] and thinking of how "American" Bush is and how America is the best and that the "towel heads" need to be nuked that they don't realize what is really going on in the country.
I didn't vote myself, but if I did, I would have voted Socialist. As for the draft, there isn't much that I can say. If I do end up getting drafted, I will go and serve my time. By the way, I hear Montreal is nice for all you planning to flee the country, or your could move to Mexico. _________________ Reality continues to ruin my life... |
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ChasingChickens
 Joined: 11 Feb 2004 Posts: 908 BNet Acct/Realm: *Chasingchickens, *LegendofRooster 0.00 Silvarrr |
All the talk about the draft this election was not real, there is no threat of a draft as of now nor for a few more years, almost all the talk about it was started by mtv and "rock the vote" who used it as a scare tactic, but the republicans and democrats both wrote to them asking them to take that back because the draft is not a worry as of now. And for any other talk of a draft that was started: http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/editorial/19994.htm _________________ 
iso: 18 max/-15 req jewel 20+max damage jewels 3/ar/life scs ed/max jewels Standard LLD Currency (15 lifers, 15 maxers, SoJ's, Runes, etc etc) |
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Jerkazoid
 Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 2902 BNet Acct/Realm: wscl 4.86 Silvarrr |
i think thats true. drafted to a war, when there was no decleration? ... too much a similarity to the conflict in vietnam, ouch. ps anyone else think the death of osama would make for one hell of a martyr? _________________ Magic missile doesn't kill people, wizards who cast magic missile kill people.  |
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B[x]
 Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 6130 BNet Acct/Realm: Retired 0.00 Silvarrr |
yeah, i don't think there will be a draft either, i was just saying that if there was, it wouldn't be the same as it was for Vietnam. _________________ 
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GODZ!
Victim of the BAN BLUDGEON Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 3623 BNet Acct/Realm: ECWK 0.00 Silvarrr |
yah just like cheney kept saying it was sadam husain that was diong it all and that were gonna get him(even though we already have him) and even though the fbi, cia, anything else kept telling him not to... he did becuase it would bring in more patriotic people to vote republican. and...
or your dad is president and your too pussy to actually be in the war and be patriotic but then later claim urself u are patriotic becuase your an ocean away so you are relocated for some odd reason. Last edited by GODZ! on Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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B[x]
Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 6130 BNet Acct/Realm: Retired 0.00 Silvarrr |
heh, there's always that option as well. _________________
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matic_random
Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Posts: 1062 BNet Acct/Realm: usEast -usWest [NL] Unknown Legends Crew 0.00 Silvarrr |
well none of congress people kids are at war exept one,wow wut patriotism here.my parents voted 4 bush too,i didnt vote cause both of em are big fruits,so i dont like non of em. _________________ 
nationalsigleague.com retired lvl18 palie |
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VoicesLLD
Joined: 09 Mar 2004 Posts: 7401 BNet Acct/Realm: Recovering WoW addict. 0.00 Silvarrr |
in canada? pardon me for not sleeping with my TV. i dont care that much. 
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GodHatesMe
Joined: 29 Feb 2004 Posts: 168 BNet Acct/Realm: USEAST 0.00 Silvarrr |
What?s up everyone. I haven?t been here in a while and I was viewing the old forums reminiscing of days gone by when I had the time to LLD more. This thread caught my eye given the recent election and such so I decided to through my 2 cents in about why there will be a draft and why their will probably be many more wars due to America's current governmental and cultural situation. It might not be this term but in our lifetime for sure. Think big picture. 1) Kill Your Television: The average American watches about 30 hours a week of television. Television unlike other forms of entertainment requires no interaction, a TV watcher is not required to do anything physical or mental, all he or she does is sit still and absorb information through audio sounds and visual images. In essence it?s negative meditation. It makes one wonder what images are being shown to people while they aren?t thinking for 30 hours a week. Who is in control of what is shown in those 30 hours a week and what effect does it have on people? There is slightly less than one television per person and slightly more than two televisions per household in America as of 2001. American?s love television and watch a lot of it. What does this streaming of corporate decision making into our living rooms as we sit there dazed staring do? With hundreds of millions of dollars at stake I doubt anything is left to chance, the techniques of commercials are incredibly sophisticated and it is with this same sophistication I believe network programming is created with. It?s one giant advertisement not just selling you products, but also selling you a life image. It?s all very passive of course; you can turn the television on and off and switch the channels. But the powers of suggestion from television are underestimated. It?s a very simply system, so simply people don?t realize and that?s why it works so well. 2) Corporate Globalization: As global interdependence increases transnational corporations are controlling more and more of the world through trade while the power of the nation state is gradually declining. Out of the 100 largest economies in the world 51 are companies. Based mostly in western nations transnational corporations are on a constant quest to increase the bottom line and weave global webs of production, commerce, and finance virtually unopposed. They expand, invest and grow, concentrating even more wealth into fewer hands. They work together to influence local, national and international institutions and laws. And together with the governments of their home countries in Europe, North America and Japan, they are molding an international system in which they can trade and invest even more freely and further their control. 3) Corporate Consolidation and Control of Mass Media: As the rate of corporate mergers increase and huge multinational corporations merge together such as AOL and Time Warner or Microsoft and NBC the control of an enormous amount of power is consolidated into the hands of fewer people. In the case of mainstream media it means what we see and here everyday from television, songs and movies is in the hands of an ever-decreasing select few. This practice creates media corporations that are so big their vast size means there will be an array of issues they cannot cover properly because they have a vested interest in the subject. This and the general commercialized approached of most mainstream media, television mainly, with its advertisements and shows depicting a false reality of the world help create a system where a select few people control what a vast majority of the populations sees. Placing an emphasis on materialism and depicting the world in a way that suites them the corporate control of the media is total. There is a lot more that goes on in the world then what you see on television however. 4) Corporate Influence in Government: In the 2004 elections both Bush and Kerry received over 218 million dollars in campaign contributions from big businesses. The complex mathematics of contributions, access, lobbying, legislation and re-election rules both parties and have for a longtime. Corporations want the man that will help them out the most in office and have the money to help him along the way. Corporate lobbyists seeking payback from the Presidential election are poised to shape the legislative agenda and influence policy in Washington on a wide variety of issues including: opening Alaska's pristine Arctic Refuge to oil exploration; allowing unbridled carbon dioxide emissions to continue; overturning new ergonomic standards in the workplace; bolstering managed health care; beefing up defense spending; helping credit card companies tighten the noose on bankrupt people; undermining airline employees' rights to strike; and, of course, subverting a substantive campaign finance reform package. 5) The Government Has a History of Shadiness: During the 20th century, particularly the later half of it, our government has had various plans that it has instituted around the world to support American interests selfishly. Some of these plans are of a seemingly devious nature and when discovered have turned into controversies. By this I mean all the extremely shady obscure events that the media hardly spends anytime on in the news but seem important given their nature. For example, when Ronald Reagan sold arms to Iran to finance a small war in Nicaragua off the books (Iran Contra), or the gulf of Tonkin controversy, which was used to start the Vietnam War. The list goes on and includes the invasion of Panama, plots to kill Castro, Training all sorts of guerilla groups around the world and the biggest most shocking plot of them all, the invasion of Iraq to find weapons of mass destruction. 6) The New Plan After Communism: Since the end of World War II and the beginning of the cold war till recently, America?s primary goal in foreign policy has been to contain communism. The world?s balance of power was split between two superpowers and although people lived in fear of nuclear attack there was no single all powerful country in the world that could exert its will around the globe. With the fall of the Berlin wall and the collapse of the Soviet Union America stood alone as the last superpower. What would the new policy for the 21st century be since there was no longer a communist threat? In 1992 Paul Wolfowitz wrote just such a answer that in short opinionated that America should ?Establish and protect a new order? that accounts ?sufficiently for the interests of the advanced industrial nations to discourage them from challenging our leadership,? while at the same time maintaining a military dominance capable of ?deterring potential competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional or global role.? ?actual excerpt from the draft taking from a frontline special on it (this is very easy to find on the web). In other words create an American hegemony around the world to maintain our superpower status. This document was classified but parts of it leaked out to the New York Times in the mid 1990?s. After the leak the pentagon had Dick Cheney, our recently reelected vice president, revise the draft. The first Bush administration condemned the document but the idea would not die. It is now supported by an organization called the Project for a New American Century or PNAC, their website can be found at this link http://www.newamericancentury.org/, I suggest you read the statement of principles signed by Dick Cheney. Both the National Defense Strategy and the PNAC report have the stated objective of insuring that no country will ever present a challenge to the United States and both recommend almost exactly the same increase in military spending which has now occurred. This is so we can "fight and win multiple, simultaneous major theatre wars." To this day Wolfowitz?s plan called "Defense Planning Guidance 1992? has been the cornerstone of the Bush Doctrine. This is evident in their highly unilateral actions against Iraq and Afghanistan. This policy was abandon during the Clinton administration but has an uncanny resemblance to Bush?s 2000 "National Security Strategy of the United States" or NSS and its most recent incarnate NSS 2004. What Does All This Mean? A climate has been created through these circumstances in which corporations dictate our world for us indirectly through monetary power. Through financing campaigns and lobbying big business indirectly influences Washington through money. As these same corporations merge together the control of campaign financing and lobbyists falls into the hands of fewer and fewer people. It is through this method that corporate control of Washington?s bureaucracy has reached the point it is at today. This is no more evident then in the current administrations ties to big business. Vice President Dick Cheney receives over a million dollars a year from Halliburton as a severance package for his services as the companies? president before he left to run for office. A majority of Bush?s cabinet were formally corporate Lobbyists, CEOs and presidents. Even Bush himself was a businessman. As media companies merge and transnational corporations expand, the control of what people see and here about the world falls also into fewer and fewer hands leading to a situation of ill informed people that are being told things from the media?s point of view. Business plays an enormous role in controlling what our governments does and what we see and here. Television given the nature of the medium is perfect for conveying this. It?s almost scary the power these CEO?s and Corporation presidents hold and television is their foot soldier. There is almost one television to every person in the United States passively beaming its corporate decision making into homes across the nation every night. This consumer TV worshiping society compounded with the current administrations hawkish empire building idles creates a dangerous situation for America. The rest of the world does not see America as spreading its sunny democracy across the world as the media tends to portray it but insteads sees it for what it is. A vast consumer machine that is attempting to convert the world to its ideals to maintain its superpower status and create corporate profits. The truly frightening part however, is the historical context of it all. The corporate tyranny at the start of the 20th century wasn?t ended by the progressive movement, it has just changed into something more sophisticated, been shipped oversees, covered up by miles of paper work and hidden. All the little dealings that no one ever hears or knows about that happened all over the world during the 20th century proves the government is willing to do twisted things when it feels its power is threatened. The only difference is that now they are on a massive scale, bigger and better then ever. Fueled by the Bush administrations hawkishness, No longer do these little blips on the credibility radar show up in the news as minor incidents they are widely televised commercial events covered by every network as they unfold. There is no better example of this then the most recent war in Iraq. Without another term to run for, the current administration is as free as ever to pursue their imperialistic ambitions fueled by corporate desires while the American people sit idly by not understanding fully what is happening because their television doesn?t tell them. The problem however runs deeper then this I have recently come to believe. Both republican and democratic parties are influenced by corporations and sold to the American people through TV, both have committed scandalous acts throughout the 20th century and both are pawns in a machine that is too vast, too methodical and too calculating for any one single presidential term to change anything. Essential the American people are given the choose between two evils. In this most recent election I believe the greater of the two was chosen. But the question is why he was chosen? Bush won the popular vote and was elected president by a clear margin. Although fraud is a possibility he was elected by a majority of electoral vote and was considered the winner, the populace wanted him to be president. This means that a majority of the Americans that voted felt that the corporate powered bush campaign with its unilateral foreign policy plan and business friendly agenda would be a better president then Kerry. Or it means that a majority of Americans that voted don?t really know what they are voting on. We are the worlds last superpower controlled by corporations that influence the government and control the media, that in turn influence people?s opinions. All this headed by an administration that feels that the world is America?s manifest destiny in the 21st century. I believe this is only the latest chapter in an ongoing series of events since World War II that have happened, and will continue to happen and eventually lead us to either a Third World War or a large series of Vietnam like conflicts around the globe occurring simultaneously but separately throughout various regions of the Middle East and Asia all the while increasing the likelihood of terrorism here in the states. Even now the Bush administration is settings its eyes on Iran, Syria and Sudan. It is possible that in another Election if a president with a different platform is elected some of the damage to America?s image around the world can be repaired. But I believe this would only be postponing the inevitable. The system of government and the society behind it is fatally flawed. There will be many wars in our lifetime, a draft will happen again. and o yeah......... could someone through me a deaths sash and gloves so i can get my lvl 9 up and running again i lost them in a xfer game |
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xX_marie_Xx
 Joined: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 994 BNet Acct/Realm: useast [nl] Montreal Canada 0.00 Silvarrr |
and theres nothing we can do about it because the majority of the population is ignorant or willfully blind.... ONe thing you forgot to mention that is also frightening, is the issue of religion being mixed in all of this... (too lazy to elaborate and don't wanna spark up some flames)
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 <<<<dont ya hate leetspeak |
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B[x]
Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 6130 BNet Acct/Realm: Retired 0.00 Silvarrr |
for those of you who don't feel like reading all of that (though you should, it brings up some interesting points), here's a brief summary: money talks. tv controls the masses. bush and cheney are planning to take over the world. oh, and god, msg me next time you see me on (though it's not much, lately), i believe i have a spare death's sash and gloves. _________________
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xX_marie_Xx
Joined: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 994 BNet Acct/Realm: useast [nl] Montreal Canada 0.00 Silvarrr |
lol I read it and say people should. i agree some of the points brought up are good _________________
<<<<dont ya hate leetspeak |
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Hellfireclanx
 Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 1198 11.73 Silvarrr |
I loved how the daily show was making fun of the mid-west about how the west was voting for bush because they take the theat of terrorism seriously, especially with so many places that terrorists would want to hit
but yea... i dont really like bush, particularly because I feel the war in Iraq is totally unjustified... except for perhaps oil. That reason the government denies of course, but it seems the only plausible explanation, and the only gain the US knew it would get. Sure, the possibility of severing terrorist ties and stopping WMDs are great, but the government wasnt too sure about those, and look how everything ended up. As far as toppling Hussein's regime, why would a bunch of rich fat guys in washington care about oppresed people in a sandbox on the other side of the world. Either A. Those people in the sandbox were a threat to the guys in washington or B. Those people in the sandbox could make them richer and fatter. A didnt turn out too well, and we KNOW north korea and iran have nuclear weapons programs and we know of other countries that have ties to terrorism.... so why do we have hussein in custody instead of bin laden If I could vote i probably would have voted for kerry ( not that it would have mattered, my state is entirely democratic ) On the other hand, the democrats werent too smart either. A democrat from massachusetts doesn't have a very good chance of sweeping the nation, they needed another Clinton: a candidate from the south or the west. Anyway hopefully bush doesnt screw up too bad, and if not I've always wanted to live in Australia anyway dunno why i wrote all that... its 12:30 and i cant remember what Im supposed to be doing now _________________ *HFCX  |
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ChasingChickens
Joined: 11 Feb 2004 Posts: 908 BNet Acct/Realm: *Chasingchickens, *LegendofRooster 0.00 Silvarrr |
Why would we do it for the oil? The war costed more then the oil we would have gotten. and for wmds:
And I used to have a link for terrorist ties where Suddam gave upwards of 40 million in oil bonds to some palastine terrorist organization. _________________
iso: 18 max/-15 req jewel 20+max damage jewels 3/ar/life scs ed/max jewels Standard LLD Currency (15 lifers, 15 maxers, SoJ's, Runes, etc etc) |
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Hellfireclanx
Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 1198 11.73 Silvarrr |
Iraq has 1/9 of the worlds oil, which is worth a few trillion dollars.... and now the US has full control over oil sales and oil industry. I don't think the war costs quite that much.
Great so Bush might have one last ounce of credibility. Still weren't we "almost certain" of wmds before the war started? and look where that got us. to me the article looks similar to the color coded national threat level: a way to keep the fingers from pointing at washington. even if they do find WMDs now it wont change much... the government will be able to say "I told you so" for awhile, there will be a great sweep of nationalism and people will rally to the flag again. red white and blue will be all over cars and windows and everything. A change in president probably won't have any influence over whether or not we find WMDs at this stage. But even if we do find them it still won't change the facts on what mattered: that we had no hard proof of WMDs going into the war. I just don't think it was right to kill thousands of people because the government was "almost certain" there were WMDs.
some palastine terrorist organization doesn't mean al qaeda.... aren't they the ones that attacked the US. Yea i know, this is a global war on terror and even if the terrorists aren't a threat to the US, we should fight against them. Just remember who was giving 6 billion to aid the taliban a few decades ago. if its the possibility of terrorists building WMDs we are worried about, 40 million would barely compensate for a fraction of the costs. We have to worry about the countries with oil money that fund terrorists, not the ones that give out pocket change. Yea i know i said Iraq has trillions in oil, but thats only if UN sanctions are lifted, which they weren't. i still dont see why the "front line on the war on terror" is in a country that isn't proven to have any connection to the people who attacked the US in the first place. _________________ *HFCX |
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