LLD101 Forum Index LLD101
Low Level Dueling in 1.12
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:48 pm
All times are UTC - 8
 Forum index » Diablo 2 Discussion Section » LLD Discussion » LLD Guides
Level 18 Kicksin - Revolutionized
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 5 of 5 [74 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Author Message
super-duder

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 170
BNet Acct/Realm: USEast NL SC
Offline
0.00 Silvarrr

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:22 pm    Post subject:  

I've wanted to test a range 5 2-h weapon on my lvl18 kicker for some time but I haven't gotten around to it. I had a Unique picked out but I don't remember which 1 it was. I originally planned to use it against annoying runners but maybe useful against the zealers. You do see lvl30 kickers with range 5 weapons to take on lld smiters... just a thought.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Roy
My level 18s > yours


Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 5750
Offline
223.30 Silvarrr

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:15 pm    Post subject:  

I actually keep a Bloodthief Brandistock in my stash for use against smiters. It has 35% Open Wounds, +10 Strength, and +26 Life. Even better, it's a range 5 weapon and you can still reach max kick speed with CB gloves and only one hard point in BoS (with the +2 on the prebuff switch).

Another option is a Malice Brandistock, but Malice doesn't have as many nice mods as Bloodthief.

_________________
breakbeatz2 wrote:
2-15 isnt possible on level 18 jewels. He must mean 2 x 15 maxers


yarly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Waramp


Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 4788
Offline
0.59 Silvarrr

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:24 pm    Post subject:  

thats what i tried to tell people! i have an eth bloodthief on my kicker for style points Very Happy it appears kicking doesnt lower weapon dura because it still has full. and you may say "no shit, you're kicking" but smite lowers weapon dura.
_________________

http://forums.d2jsp.org/index.php?showuser=246043
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Roy
My level 18s > yours


Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 5750
Offline
223.30 Silvarrr

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:30 pm    Post subject:  

Oh gosh, Eth Bloodthief FTW clearly. The only problem is that I would want to use it to charge up TS against slow moving smiters.
_________________
breakbeatz2 wrote:
2-15 isnt possible on level 18 jewels. He must mean 2 x 15 maxers


yarly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
super-duder

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 170
BNet Acct/Realm: USEast NL SC
Offline
0.00 Silvarrr

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:23 am    Post subject:  

Yes the Duskdeep does wonders against other kickers. I am also considering steelclash for it's -3 dmg for -10 total, plus 15 res all. My kicker is basically made to duel everything except the zealers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Jerkazoid


Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 2902
BNet Acct/Realm: wscl
Offline
4.86 Silvarrr

PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:33 pm    Post subject:  

i like the idea of an eth steel brandistock...hmmm edit (stupid me, swords/axes/maces only)
sorry for posting this soo late, i just came across it roy, i know its old but i guess i never read through it bc i stoped lld a while back and only now got back into it.

im also going to try to work on a flail build now . maybe. i do like the OW alot, btw open wounds from a lvl 18 = 5.3 pvp/sec. so having that on pretty much all the time is nice.

Toe to toe comparison (value in bold needs more input)
kick dmg is roughly 25pvp a kick from a slvl18 dt (4kick) non TS 70str

kicker at 7/3 , this is 16 frames for 4 kicks (game = 25fps)
avg = 6.25 kicks a second
25 dmg * 6.25 = 156.25 pvp/sec

def + blocking avg ~ let say its 95% chance to hit (good ar on kickers) and 25% chance to not be blocked .95 * .25 =
23.75% chance to strike

156.25 pvp * 23.75 strike = 37.1 pvp/sec on kicker

now as for the crushing, lets take a good 800life zealot.
from the strikes (not factoring misses nor dps, or OW) with 150 kick vs 800 life zealot

(edit; made some errors on this)
avg 25.5pvp a hit with no CB dead in 32 strikes (134seconds)
avg 36 pvp a hit with 33%cb (41% more final avg dmg) [dead in 22 strikes; 92.6 seconds]

in 1/2 of that time(57seconds) OW would do about 302 dmg, lowering the effect of crushing.

now an example where crushing is NOT favorable would be more kick dmg, and less opponent life. 225 (str pumped) kick vs 700 life zealot (need to double check that avg kick dmg though)

avg 38.25 pvp a hit no CB dead in 19strikes (80* seconds)
avg 41 pvp a hit with 10%cb (7% more final avg dmg) dead in 17 strikes; 71.5 seconds

just so u see the math
19 strikes / (un blocked% + hit%) = seconds of attacking a zealot
19 /.2375 =
80 seconds to hit 19 times.*

we can see that if u hit 225 kick avg the 700 life zealot is dead in 80 seconds. compare that to a 150 kick with 33% crushing on 800 life zealot of 92 seconds.

compare the longevity of the two sin builds against the avg zealot dmg the change in life can have a serious effect. i can hit 1150 life on mine 4rubied 76vit (bfists and a better rare ring should get that over 1200).. roy suggestion looses just under 300 i think.

so the tackling issue is now distilled to something like 12 seconds range3, -2frames block, -1frame recovery, vs 300 life range1... this is wild to think about. we all know how crazy the zealot dmg is anyway. also even if my cth is off by 5% that has a large impact on DPS.

if cth is only 90% we are looking at a 22.5% attacks = strike. so that 80second, 17hitter version, turns into 84.4 seconds. a 5.5% drop in dps from 95% cth. again another varible, probably expect people in this lvl to be about 400 def at most, but still can be an issue.

well. its alot of numbers,, almost too much, and im sure i got it wrong in places. (but i made edits) but u can see the ideas behind it.

practically speaking i do suscpect the Str + ow , and just all out faster build will be better bc of the interaction over the net and getting a kb kick volley out sooner is better. however i have not tried it yet. i do always suggest speed when things compare marginally, so im certainly inclined to take that direction.
but has anyone compared the two sins at 18 to see how it works? after all this is a bit of an old thread.

what i do
1150 life kicker (non def build) works semi ok, its a Pruby build, twitch, swordback, 3os (pruby) mask, eth repair greaves, deaths combo. (non socketed shield and flange atm)
but TS is still too much a pain on zealots. its fair, but nothing competative

maybe a range 3 setup with pelta will help getting a few charges, then i can switch back to flange possibly a nice rare flail with amp would be prime? its something im thinking about too but relying on amp is never smart, amp is bread+butter

heres other thoughts
deaths belt, Lenymo for mana, hitpower dtm belt, 10%OW belt
pelta, (ith rune or 20%jewel)
Vbsod 2os for 40%ed, (might be worth the 1 frame)
bloodfists, always a nice choice if u dont need 30ias
3Pruby mask
Prubied twitch

now i use Pruby bc even if i did want +strength i would still use all stat points in strength and instead of +10 from a socket, ill go with 38 life as its just +5 more life by comparison for a socket, and thats just playing highest return values.

still i do want to crutch some more numbers.. what is the dmg range on the all +str build lvl 18 kicker just so i have it right? has it been updated?

_________________
Magic missile doesn't kill people, wizards who cast magic missile kill people.


Last edited by Jerkazoid on Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:47 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Torrent


Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1410
BNet Acct/Realm: Torrent@USEast
Offline
13.37 Silvarrr

PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:51 pm    Post subject:  

Very informative jerkz, thanks for posting that.

Also, now that I've read through the Roy-breakbeatz squabble, wouldn't it just make sense to use Crusflange at first, to proc a cb or two, then switch back to the flail?

...and while I'm at it, can't crafted blood gloves have 10ias on them? Would keep your initial dtalon speed at 8 frames with Crushflange equipped.

_________________
No I don't wanna battle from beginning to end

I don't want a cycle of recycled revenge

I don't wanna follow Death And All of His Friends
http://lld101.com/viewtopic.php?t=44473 (for my own reference)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Jerkazoid


Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 2902
BNet Acct/Realm: wscl
Offline
4.86 Silvarrr

PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:32 pm    Post subject:  

Torrent wrote:
Very informative jerkz, thanks for posting that.

Also, now that I've read through the Roy-breakbeatz squabble, wouldn't it just make sense to use Crusflange at first, to proc a cb or two, then switch back to the flail?

...and while I'm at it, can't crafted blood gloves have 10ias on them? Would keep your initial dtalon speed at 8 frames with Crushflange equipped.

edit ok got back to the computer. as you know kicker is my favorite post 1.09

starting with the flange is always a +, its also how i roll in vlld kickers. using it here at 18 the same way though is not so effective. now the whole point with a steel is to eliminate the swordback. this might help TS charging, but once i got a globe i would go right into the flange to kick, for about the first half. then yes.. u eliminate the flange imo once your opponent is at 1/3 to 1/2 life.

crafting 10ias gloves would put it above the lvl 18 range as the craft automatically go atleast +9 above the mod, since 10ias is what lvl 15? or w/e .. pretty sure its too high.

a steel pelta and swordback flange switch will be what i go for. i routinly start with crush, so i like the option of both avenues depending on the life of the opponent, as to if i pump strength for the extra 15-20pvp.. or the 200-300 life.. not sure. im a big fan of longevity.

i am a twitch build with slvl 1 bos and 50ias, currently i use two +1shadow talons for bos 3 (actually i have to shop them right now but wont take too long)

_________________
Magic missile doesn't kill people, wizards who cast magic missile kill people.


Last edited by Jerkazoid on Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:19 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Torrent


Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1410
BNet Acct/Realm: Torrent@USEast
Offline
13.37 Silvarrr

PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:18 pm    Post subject:  

Lvl req was what I was afraid of ... that's kind of a shame.
_________________
No I don't wanna battle from beginning to end

I don't want a cycle of recycled revenge

I don't wanna follow Death And All of His Friends
http://lld101.com/viewtopic.php?t=44473 (for my own reference)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Roy
My level 18s > yours


Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 5750
Offline
223.30 Silvarrr

PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:04 pm    Post subject:  

Wow, I totally missed this Jerkazoid. I'll try to do some updates:

-- I started out with a Malice Brandistock against Smiters (no Steel r/w), but I quickly realized that the Unique Brandistock (Bloodthief) works even better. You don't need any IAS to hit the max kick speed, and Bloodthief has open wounds as well as +Life and +Strength.

-- I haven't bothered to use both Crushflange and Steel because I keep a Mentalists' Claw and a Sigon Shield on my switch, and I hate having to switch in and out. Basically, this build works best when you can take advantage of angles in dueling -- if you come from the side, you can usually kick them before they can reach their zeal on you.

-- I've upgraded this character quite a bit from when I first started playing. Now it uses about thirty-five 15 lifers with random lightning damage, as well as a rare 10 ias / lightning damage / KB flail. I can't hit max TS speed with this set-up though, so I usually just go pure kicks. It works pretty well - I split about evenly with above-average zealots.

-- I'm curious to see if life is a better route than strength. If I am going the elemental route, it seems like it would be. I really just wanted to use a purple great helm.

-- My damage with the all-str build is 164-249 with uncharged DTalon. I probably have about 400 max lightning damage, although it ranges from 37-400 then.

-- I had fiddled around with my friend's level 18 kicksin before - he was a pure Strength build and used Crushflange. I never had much of a chance against zealots -- it seemed like each duel, I would get off to a great start, then watch as my crushing blow stopped working. OW doesn't do much, but it's noticeable. I'm thinking about switching to a crafted OW belt if I take off Steel -- I still don't think it's worth using Swordback over the Pelta. I like Pelta a lot.

Ultimately, kicksins are going to be at a disadvantage against zealots. With this build, you will have a small fighting chance. I've tried comparing both against Elusive's zealot, and I ultimately preferred my Steel Flail / Pelta combo.

_________________
breakbeatz2 wrote:
2-15 isnt possible on level 18 jewels. He must mean 2 x 15 maxers


yarly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
D jr


Joined: 07 Dec 2009
Posts: 24
BNet Acct/Realm: Europe ladder
Offline
0.00 Silvarrr

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 3:51 am    Post subject:  

I like this guide, might do a lvl 18 kicker this ladder. As for another weapon choice, I found a 20% IAS Amp blade talon with 30ish AR on it. I was thinking to socket it with a Pamethyst for AR and charge up Tiger a bit with this weapon before switching to the flail. Would it be a good option?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Jerkazoid


Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 2902
BNet Acct/Realm: wscl
Offline
4.86 Silvarrr

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:59 am    Post subject:  

D jr wrote:
I like this guide, might do a lvl 18 kicker this ladder. As for another weapon choice, I found a 20% IAS Amp blade talon with 30ish AR on it. I was thinking to socket it with a Pamethyst for AR and charge up Tiger a bit with this weapon before switching to the flail. Would it be a good option?

i suspect +AR on the claw does not help kick (my memory is fuzzy on that)
but it will help TS for sure...and going back to the flail is a fair option.

_________________
Magic missile doesn't kill people, wizards who cast magic missile kill people.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
krajee
Site Admin

Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 6572
Offline
9.68 Silvarrr

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:26 pm    Post subject:  

I tested +ar on weapon with kicks back in 1.11 or something like that and my conclusion was that it helps.
_________________
" 'You miss 100% of the shots you donít take' - Wayne Gretzky " - Michael Scott
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
xxrebornxx

Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 10
Offline
0.00 Silvarrr

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:57 am    Post subject:  

pretty sure this guy knows wat hes talking about so stop flamin
nice build dude
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 5 of 5 [74 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Diablo 2 Discussion Section » LLD Discussion » LLD Guides
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.0840s ][ Queries: 49 (0.0077s) ][ GZIP on - Debug on ]