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Roy
My level 18s > yours
Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 5750
223.30 Silvarrr
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:52 pm Post subject:
Crucial Melee Glitch/Bug -- Could someone please verify? |
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Just to be dramatic -- tonight, a group of LLD's believe that we have discovered a bug that could drastically alter melee dueling on Battle.net. Can someone more knowledgeable than we confirm this?
In doing some kicksin duels, DeadlyLLD and I discovered that approaching from different angles appeared to have a significant impact on the duel. After extensive testing, we came to the non-scientific conclusion that certain angles are more beneficial in kicksin dueling.
Tonight, AntichristO.o helped us to test this out further, and we ran a few tests. I'll spare all the details for now, but basically, we concluded that attacking from the bottom right (diagonally) reduces the range of your weapon/attack by 1. Namely, I was able to hit AntichristO.o with a mace (range 1) at the same range that he was hitting me with a Military Pick (range 2). From other angles, this did not work, and I would miss with my attack (shift-clicking).
After a couple hours of testing, we believe that certain positions on the screen affect the range of your weapon/attack. We would appreciate any feedback, as well as an explanation of the ramifications that this bug (if true) would have on melee dueling.
Thanks to DeadlyLLD for helping to discover this, to AntichristO.o for his extensive testing that led us to confirm our suspicions, and to SoaringSquirrel and Shademehr for their valuable insight as well. If this is actually a glitch and not just a figment of my imagination, I want everyone who helped to get credit.
Regards,
*rjg
_________________
breakbeatz2 wrote: | 2-15 isnt possible on level 18 jewels. He must mean 2 x 15 maxers |
yarly
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krajee
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 6579
9.68 Silvarrr
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:53 am Post subject:
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You could always ask at The Amazon Basin or the Lurker Lounge for stuff like this.
When Jerkazoid and I would duel our kickers, it seemed like different approach angles would give me an advantage or disadvantage, but we didn't pursue with any analysis.
_________________ " 'You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take' - Wayne Gretzky " - Michael Scott
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Elusive
Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Posts: 2765 BNet Acct/Realm: *elusive-
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:59 am Post subject:
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agreed there is a difference in angles, sub and i discovered this in our zealot duels as well.
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Belarathon
Joined: 24 Feb 2004 Posts: 4577 BNet Acct/Realm: east nl
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:12 am Post subject:
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i always thought this haha but not because i noticed anything in my duels.. just because my sword looked smaller if i was standing on certain angles lol and it looked longer standing on other angles. I haven't actually noticed any difference because I haven't been paying attention, but I always try and stand on the angle where my sword looks longest!
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Elusive
Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Posts: 2765 BNet Acct/Realm: *elusive-
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:49 am Post subject:
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yeah to expand on this sub and i were talking about how certain angles (aka bottom right) seemed to make you hit less and didnt really experiment but it seemed to be the case. i usually didnt take note of it until i tried it in a pub and was having difficulty with normal lvl 18's. when i didnt use the bottom right at all as an angle i won the majority of the duels with increased ease. so i dont know how much of a disadvantage it gives you, but i stay away from attack at that angle.
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Zabo
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 30
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:22 am Post subject:
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This is old news, it's been known for ages. Attacking from different angles can hinder your attacks or be of great benefit. If you and your opponent are NOT accustomed to using angles, simply agree to having you start off in vert. and duel from there. There were tests done with people from druidpk, palapk, pn, etc ages ago on this. A hypothetical "grid" system was proposed, but nothing concrete. Long story short, angels do change outcomes of duels.
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Wank
Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 3329 BNet Acct/Realm: Imp StormsRaider
57.98 Silvarrr
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:23 am Post subject:
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This "angling" is the only thing i could use to beat Inexorable and Metrosexual (both very good melees but i only beat inexorable like 2 times out of 1,000? But the angling did increase the amount of dmg i dealt ). I dont think its a glitch necesarily, cause if you ever played snipers on sc, there is angling, and it isnt a glitch. Its just getting this spot and positioning yourself to use it. also helps if you position yourself and hold shift ^^. Then only angle i know is if char ais at bottom left and char b is at upper right, usually char a gets most hits and char b might get 2.
_________________
Equipped Lvl 30's:
Froggy-Leap Attacker, Vidala- Bow, Starly-Wind, Haunter-Bonenec, Dragonair-Fissure, Vileplume-Psn Jav, Clefairy- Wc
http://img104.imagevenue.com/loc1100/th_30982_ImpAvatar_122_1100lo.jpg(didnt want to lose that link
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Zabo
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 30
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:26 am Post subject:
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You mentioned shifting. Heh, while that doesn't change the outcome from angles directly, it does have some benefit, but I find people to look down upon it at times. Shifting attacks at the maximum range of the weapon you are using. Anything with a range 3 weap can abuse this. Severely.
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Wank
Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 3329 BNet Acct/Realm: Imp StormsRaider
57.98 Silvarrr
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:27 am Post subject:
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So why not use it...
_________________
Equipped Lvl 30's:
Froggy-Leap Attacker, Vidala- Bow, Starly-Wind, Haunter-Bonenec, Dragonair-Fissure, Vileplume-Psn Jav, Clefairy- Wc
http://img104.imagevenue.com/loc1100/th_30982_ImpAvatar_122_1100lo.jpg(didnt want to lose that link
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Zabo
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 30
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:32 am Post subject:
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Personally I don't mind or care if people use it at all. The only arguments that pop up is when say a zealot, or fury druid is going against say a conc barb. The barb still has to get a namelock, whereas all the former two have to do is hit shift, no highlighting of the name required. I guess people get pissed because someone has to take the effort of highlighting a name XD.
Most of this applies to hld. :-/ Then people have reason to complain. If two people are walking up to duel, both are range three, one person hits shift prior and begins swinging the other oponent can actually be out range slightly (this is when combined with the "angling" theory crap).
But anyway. Shift away people
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Obeah
Joined: 27 Oct 2004 Posts: 256
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:22 am Post subject:
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Option 1
-------A
B-->
Option 2
A
<--
-------B
Think on Char B
"Bottom right" u mean B attacking from bottom in right direction (Option 1) or u mean attacking FROM bottom right position (Option 2)?
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Meegz ?
Joined: 19 Nov 2004 Posts: 2671 BNet Acct/Realm: *meegz @ east ladder
39.74 Silvarrr
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject:
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does the thing where df cant hit while opponent is running south even work? ive heard a lot of people say it in duels, never tested for myself to find out. and this topic is why i always come in from the side, and dont let anyone come at me from corners when i pvp in melee, lol.
_________________ Napalm loves the little children, all the little children of the world,
Red and Yellow, Black and White
They are Candles in the Night
Napalm loves the little children of the world.
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Chronotrigger
Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 1112 BNet Acct/Realm: ladder east/Florida
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:28 am Post subject:
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hmm can any one make a grafical post or pick of angils this wil help a lot
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MeshinLLD
Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 1284
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:49 am Post subject:
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While i cant be 100% sure, ill relate this to a few games some of my friends made and they helped explain it to me a little.
What i gathered from listening to them was that each character has a polygon shape, as you know pollygons have side and angles ect. by matching certain angles against others you can hit your opponet on a wider side while he is stuck with a small side of your polygon which is easily sheared off.
They also said this dosent happen with nearly any games today, because they rely so much on 3d analysing skinning mapping framming and texturing ect all that crap, but because d2 is so old and not graphicly intensive this could likly be the cause of it.
They are junior programmers at goergia tech, one is majoring in computer programming, and other in graphical something something
anyways it makes alot of sense once you think about it. At least to me.
_________________ Level 15, its good to be back.
UsWest [NL]
*MeshinLLD
UsEast [NL]
*MeshinLLD
*Meshin
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Zeiris-lld
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 385 BNet Acct/Realm: siriez, siriez2, zeiris-lld, zeiris, zeiris1
0.00 Silvarrr
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject:
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Yeah, that makes perfect sense! Each sprite has a single (x, y) coordinate that defines its position. However, each sprite also has width and height. Suppose the (x, y) coordinate of a sprite isn't in the very center? In D2's isometric map system having the players coordinates at the feet instead of the waist makes sense.
Code: |
The character sprite.
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\/
OOOOO
OOOOO
OOOOO
OOOOO
OOOOO
OOOOO
OOXOO <- the X is the the "position" of the sprite according to the game.
OOOOO
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It's pretty safe to assume that all spells and attacks are calculated as originating from the X.
It's also safe to assume that the game detects a melee hit when the coordinate of the attack's longest reach lands in another sprite (in any of the Os).
What does this mean? Take two characters attacking each other, one from above another from below.
Code: |
character A
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\/
OOOOO
OOOOO
OOOOO
OOOOO
OOOOO
OOOOO
OOXOO |
OOOOO | XaOb |
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OOOOO | |
OOOOO |
OOOOO | XbOa
OOOOO |
OOOOO |
OOOOO |
OOXOO |
OOOOO
/\
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character B
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In order to hit the other opponent, a character must be able to reach from it's own X to an opponents O (from it's own x,y coordinates to any point on the opponents sprite). The distance character A must reach over to hit character B (XaOb) is shorter than the distance character B must reach over to hit character A (XbOa). Character B needs a longer range weapon to achieve the same "reach" as character A...
In short, you should attack opponents from above if you want a slight increase in your weapon's range. If you want a perfectly balanced melee fight, you should both attack from the sides.
_________________ Retired: Haruspex (30/fissure) Kukamunga (30/hammerdin) Bungabunga (30/charge) NoPotsJustHax (30/regen/charge) AllMyShootings (30/enchant/bowmerc) CapnCapslock (27/mindblast/hammer) Salamander (19/fireball HC disposa-PK) ForgottenName (18/range 5 basher)
Equipped: leaper (14/doublethrow) Flayer (33/firetrapper)
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