LLD101

[Roy]

Just to be dramatic -- tonight, a group of LLD's believe that we have discovered a bug that could drastically alter melee dueling on Battle.net. Can someone more knowledgeable than we confirm this?

In doing some kicksin duels, DeadlyLLD and I discovered that approaching from different angles appeared to have a significant impact on the duel. After extensive testing, we came to the non-scientific conclusion that certain angles are more beneficial in kicksin dueling.

Tonight, AntichristO.o helped us to test this out further, and we ran a few tests. I'll spare all the details for now, but basically, we concluded that attacking from the bottom right (diagonally) reduces the range of your weapon/attack by 1. Namely, I was able to hit AntichristO.o with a mace (range 1) at the same range that he was hitting me with a Military Pick (range 2). From other angles, this did not work, and I would miss with my attack (shift-clicking).

After a couple hours of testing, we believe that certain positions on the screen affect the range of your weapon/attack. We would appreciate any feedback, as well as an explanation of the ramifications that this bug (if true) would have on melee dueling.

Thanks to DeadlyLLD for helping to discover this, to AntichristO.o for his extensive testing that led us to confirm our suspicions, and to SoaringSquirrel and Shademehr for their valuable insight as well. If this is actually a glitch and not just a figment of my imagination, I want everyone who helped to get credit.

Regards,
*rjg

[krajee]

You could always ask at The Amazon Basin or the Lurker Lounge for stuff like this.

When Jerkazoid and I would duel our kickers, it seemed like different approach angles would give me an advantage or disadvantage, but we didn't pursue with any analysis.

[Elusive]

agreed there is a difference in angles, sub and i discovered this in our zealot duels as well.

[Belarathon]

i always thought this haha but not because i noticed anything in my duels.. just because my sword looked smaller if i was standing on certain angles lol and it looked longer standing on other angles. I haven't actually noticed any difference because I haven't been paying attention, but I always try and stand on the angle where my sword looks longest!

[Elusive]

yeah to expand on this sub and i were talking about how certain angles (aka bottom right) seemed to make you hit less and didnt really experiment but it seemed to be the case. i usually didnt take note of it until i tried it in a pub and was having difficulty with normal lvl 18's. when i didnt use the bottom right at all as an angle i won the majority of the duels with increased ease. so i dont know how much of a disadvantage it gives you, but i stay away from attack at that angle.

[Zabo]

This is old news, it's been known for ages. Attacking from different angles can hinder your attacks or be of great benefit. If you and your opponent are NOT accustomed to using angles, simply agree to having you start off in vert. and duel from there. There were tests done with people from druidpk, palapk, pn, etc ages ago on this. A hypothetical "grid" system was proposed, but nothing concrete. Long story short, angels do change outcomes of duels.

[Wank]

This "angling" is the only thing i could use to beat Inexorable and Metrosexual (both very good melees but i only beat inexorable like 2 times out of 1,000? But the angling did increase the amount of dmg i dealt ). I dont think its a glitch necesarily, cause if you ever played snipers on sc, there is angling, and it isnt a glitch. Its just getting this spot and positioning yourself to use it. also helps if you position yourself and hold shift ^^. Then only angle i know is if char ais at bottom left and char b is at upper right, usually char a gets most hits and char b might get 2.

[Zabo]

You mentioned shifting. Heh, while that doesn't change the outcome from angles directly, it does have some benefit, but I find people to look down upon it at times. Shifting attacks at the maximum range of the weapon you are using. Anything with a range 3 weap can abuse this. Severely.

[Wank]

So why not use it...

[Zabo]

Personally I don't mind or care if people use it at all. The only arguments that pop up is when say a zealot, or fury druid is going against say a conc barb. The barb still has to get a namelock, whereas all the former two have to do is hit shift, no highlighting of the name required. I guess people get pissed because someone has to take the effort of highlighting a name XD.

Most of this applies to hld. :-/ Then people have reason to complain. If two people are walking up to duel, both are range three, one person hits shift prior and begins swinging the other oponent can actually be out range slightly (this is when combined with the "angling" theory crap).

But anyway. Shift away people

[Obeah]

Option 1

-------A
B-->


Option 2

A
<--
-------B

Think on Char B

"Bottom right" u mean B attacking from bottom in right direction (Option 1) or u mean attacking FROM bottom right position (Option 2)?

[Meegz ?]

does the thing where df cant hit while opponent is running south even work? ive heard a lot of people say it in duels, never tested for myself to find out. and this topic is why i always come in from the side, and dont let anyone come at me from corners when i pvp in melee, lol.

[Chronotrigger]

hmm can any one make a grafical post or pick of angils this wil help a lot

[MeshinLLD]

While i cant be 100% sure, ill relate this to a few games some of my friends made and they helped explain it to me a little.

What i gathered from listening to them was that each character has a polygon shape, as you know pollygons have side and angles ect. by matching certain angles against others you can hit your opponet on a wider side while he is stuck with a small side of your polygon which is easily sheared off.

They also said this dosent happen with nearly any games today, because they rely so much on 3d analysing skinning mapping framming and texturing ect all that crap, but because d2 is so old and not graphicly intensive this could likly be the cause of it.

They are junior programmers at goergia tech, one is majoring in computer programming, and other in graphical something something


anyways it makes alot of sense once you think about it. At least to me.

[Zeiris-lld]

Yeah, that makes perfect sense! Each sprite has a single (x, y) coordinate that defines its position. However, each sprite also has width and height. Suppose the (x, y) coordinate of a sprite isn't in the very center? In D2's isometric map system having the players coordinates at the feet instead of the waist makes sense.